Posted By | Message |
Vvvergeer
Posts: 2,058
Joined: Jan 2014
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 8:52 PM | |
So this week, I encountered two small moral dilemmas in my card collecting. I arguably have failed them both....
The first, less "serious," is that my wife in her semi-annual trip to the card shop -- this one for my birthday -- accidentally bought me a double of a 1971 Ron Santo Coin. Not really a big deal, but for over 40 years I had exactly four of those coins. I didn't know what they were, where they came from, but I liked them, so I kept them, and they had an odd significance to me. Probably because my late father probably bought me a few packs in 1971 and these must have come in them. I learned what they were on this site, about five years ago. And now I'm trying to complete the set. Point is, the one she bought was quite a bit nicer than the one I had for 47 years. I don't keep doubles around. No point in that to me. I don't need two of any collectible. I'd rather trade it or give it away to someone who doesn't have one. But it's hard to keep the lesser coin, and little hard to let it go. In the end, I decided to let it go, because...life brings change, some big and some small. And I've still got the other three originals.
A tad more "serious" is that I decided I wanted a 1941 Play Ball. They look pretty cool, so I'd been keeping on eye out. No Cubs in that set, unfortunately, and didn't want a HOFer, so I just wanted the prettiest card I could find. Happens that quite a few came up at decent prices right as I got some birthday money. So I was ready. The best card by far, in my mind, was Pinky Higgins. Turns out he said some nasty things about integrating baseball when he was GM for the Red Sox and that he was a big part of the reason the Red Sox were the last team to integrate. I bought the card, anyway. Because it's beautiful. But I put my own labels on the vintage cards, and when it arrives, I'll just memorialize his racism on the label, as a compromise.
It also occurred to me -- of course I knew this, but it didn't really hit me until a few days ago, when I was watching Ken Burns's "Jackie Robinson"-- that all the pre-Topps cards I'll ever get will just be white guys. Nothing I can do about it. And I'll still collect them, but it bugs me. Such hatred and idiocy, and it's reflected in the pre-1947 cards I buy, unfortunately.
Anyway, I suppose I could put this into a question. Any players or things you just won't buy for moral reasons? Not because they're shortprints or teams you don't like.
v3
|
|
|
|
muskie027
Posts: 692
Joined: Apr 2016
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:22 PM | |
Nothing I ban for moral reason. What I hate and what I love are equally a part of the history of sport. To me the cards capture a moment in sport history. You can't watch 70's football highlights with a dubbed in Bills Running Back (I think we know who I am talking about) and history is full of idiots or people who have done atrocious things. Honestly, I kind of laugh when people try to control it and act like they are on some moral high ground by deciding to pretend the history didn't exist or by not acknowledging those infamous people of history. The irony is they draw more attention to the idiots of the past by doing this. I love sports. Can we really pretend Penn St. didn't win all those games under Paterno, the Bills didn't have a 2,000 yard back in the 70's, the Red's didn't have the all time hits leader, and that in the late 90's and early 2000's baseball's weren't flying out of the yard in droves? No, we cannot. If you don't want to collect, I have nothing against that either, but that is personal preference and doesn't make someone as better or worse person. I love the sports and want to capture my little piece of the history. I can dislike the same people as human beings in the process.
On a side note, all the examples above were those I knew people would identify with. I am in no way giving my opinions on Pete Rose being allowed in the HoF or how to handle the Steroid Players.
|
|
|
|
muskie027
Posts: 692
Joined: Apr 2016
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:27 PM | |
I should clarify as well, I don't go out of my way to get the people who commit atrocious acts or say man, I would like to collect the cards of really bad people, but if I have a set or want a set, I am not going to throw away a card or have the whole set minus 1 card. If I want a 1975 Bills set, I want the set, not the set minus OJ.
|
|
|
|
mzentko
Posts: 2,466
Joined: Jun 2012
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:58 PM | |
I don't really have anything to add, but your points were an interesting read..
mark
|
|
|
|
obxyankeefan
Posts: 754
Joined: Aug 2017
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:01 PM | |
I went to a show Sunday a week ago and one of the dealers had 2 different Hitler cards for sale. I pointed them out to my wife and said why would someone make those and who would want them? When we went back by the dealer a little bit later he only had 1 Hitler card for sale, so I guess someone wanted it.
That is the only time I can ever remember looking at a card and saying there is no way I would want it in my collection.
|
|
|
|
Splinter_9
Posts: 743
Joined: Sep 2013
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:02 PM | |
I was going to comment and say essentially the same thing. Just because Pinky Higgins was a racist (and many, many other players/GMs/scouts/umpires were too), doesn't mean that he wasn't part of the history of the game. He was there, in that time, and he got a card.
We're talking about little pieces of cardboard after all.
-------------------------------
A man has to have goals — for a day, for a lifetime — and that was mine, to have people say, "There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived."
|
|
|
|
ranfordfan
Posts: 4,975
Joined: Jun 2014
|
Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:12 PM | |
Quoting V3 .....
"" It also occurred to me -- of course I knew this, but it didn't really hit me until a few days ago, when I was watching Ken Burns's "Jackie Robinson"-- that all the pre-Topps cards I'll ever get will just be white guys. Nothing I can do about it. And I'll still collect them, but it bugs me. Such hatred and idiocy, and it's reflected in the pre-1947 cards I buy, unfortunately.
Anyway, I suppose I could put this into a question. Any players or things you just won't buy for moral reasons? Not because they're shortprints or teams you don't like. ""
There is nothing I will/will not collect because of moral issues as said above, I collect a set of cards not the people per say. But like the racism you mean V3, us folk up north must admit that it was the same way. So on that note .....................
................ It's funny you brought this up, this is not really related but also in a way it is I guess. At the show in Edmonton this weekend amongst all the $100's flying around was a single booth with a young indiginous man at it. All that was at his table was 86 (I think) different cards, all graded and in mint / near mint condition. Also, there were two photos of hockey players as they did not have cards to collect. I asked him what he was displaying and he informed me that all the cards on the table were graded cards of all the indiginous players to make it into the NHL. I was suddenly interested and listened intently to him to tell me about his reasons why and the journey he had doing it. Not once it seemed that it was not for a "me or "we" reason. Sure I sling mud from time to time when the discussion gets political but I was truly proud of him for doing what he did. When I asked him why his response was so simple, just had to try and see if he could do it. From the research he did to track the players and to find their cards and having them all graded. He is now working on making a documentry of his journey and each of the players. Anyways, I told him I was proud of him for what he did and was so pleased that for once I heard reasons that were from somewhere else other than the regular things we hear and see. He was just somebody proud of who he is and wanted to show the world what he and his fellow people have done in the world of hockey.
I guess my point is there is a lot of hate / mistrust / et al. in this world and for once I left feeling proud of who he is and the people he was imortalizing. Cool part is that one just grew up down the road from me, Wade Redden.
-------------------------------
|
|
|
|
Sportzcommish
Posts: 5,999
Joined: Oct 2016
|
Monday, April 23, 2018 12:46 AM | |
One of my favorite players growing up was Lance Rentzel, wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. When I returned to the hobby I acquired three of his cards with the intention of collecting the rest of his few available cards. I changed my mind on getting all his cards because he was once charged and pleaded guilty to indecent exposure with a 10-year old. I knew that prior to acquiring the three cards I own.
I decided that I'd keep his two Dallas cards since I collect Cowboys team sets, but have his '72 Topps card on the trade list.
No judgment on anyone wishing to collect his entire collection, but I chose not to for that reason, and I move on.
-------------------------------
Follow my blog - I Identify as a Card Collector. “Aslan didn't tell Pole what would happen. He only told her what to do. That fellow will be the death of us once he's up, I shouldn't wonder. But that doesn't let us off following the signs.” - Puddleglum in The Silver Chair by C. S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
Doc Floyd
Posts: 483
Joined: Sep 2014
|
Monday, April 23, 2018 1:19 AM | |
This could get messy. Have to tread lightly here with this type of subject.
I try to not let it influence me. I could care less about steroids, Rose betting, the whole O.J. thing, Mike Tyson's antics, and Dani Mathers with the body shaming tweets. I collect all of those, which I did before the infractions occured.
Ty Cobb was a nasty fellow from what I've read, but I won't be getting rid of any. It was a different time, none of us can do anything about it now except to try to do better ourselves.
-------------------------------
"I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter." - Crash Davis
|
|
|
|
spazmatastic
Posts: 5,905
Joined: Dec 2014
|
Monday, April 23, 2018 3:47 AM | |
This thread is kind-of all over the place - but with good reason!. Morals is a good reason to collect someone and a lack of them is a good reason NOT to collect someone. Pete Rose and OJ have nothing to do with my collection, but only b/c they never played for teams I collect. Both had fantastic careeres in their sports. I still think that Rose shouldn't be banned from the MLB HOF just for gambling. But due to the negative thoughts associated with Pete and OJ, I'll never try to add their cards to my collection for any reason. Especially not OJ after his past decade of poor choices now. They aren't my point here though.
Some actions are just too hard to overcome the thoughts of what they did to want them in my collection. Rae Carruth and Aaron Hernandez are the first athletes that come to mind in this scenario. I'll still take Carruth Panthers cards for my Panthers collection, but I'm not hunting for them! I'll also still take Hernandez cards for my Patriots collection, but I'm not going to hunt for them! I'm also only taking them at a serious discount in supposed value. Both are guilty of murder, not assumed, but actually guilty of murder and served time for it. Aaron is dead now by his own hand and Rae is still in prison for what he did. But they still have cards of teams that I collect. On a lesser note, Greg Hardy has been a fantastic NFL player for all of his career so far. A domestic violence claim against him led to the Panthers releasing him and the Cowboys picked him up. That was a few years ago and I think he's been blamed for that again since then. The Panthers are notorious for dropping a player for any minor infraction and have always been that way. They dropped Kerry Collins (their first ever draft pick) after a single DWI a year or two after they drafted him. He had a decent career after that, but the team would have been much better if they kept him there!
I don't condone drinking and driving OR beating people for no reason! If you aren't a boxer, wrestler, or UFC/MMA fighter, you shouldn't be hitting ANYONE for ANY reason! And NOBODY should be driving after more than one alcoholic beverage. Call a friend/taxi/Uber/etc. to get you home.
Alcohol and/or violence have taken down so many people with great expectations and/or skills in the world of sports. It's a shame how many cautionary tales are out there and how many others miss those stories.
-------------------------------
NO PWE's EVER!!! PLZ PM me 1st before sending any offer. ONLY selling cards as of March 2024. No trades or purchases right now. _______________________________________________________________________ Largest total PC card collections by Team, then Athlete (as of 3/22/24): STL Cardinals (MLB) - 8810; Carolina Panthers - 2888; GB Packers - 1790+ cards Mark Martin (NASCAR) - 2038 cards; Jimmie Johnson (NASCAR) - 1875 cards; Jeff Gordon (NASCAR) - 1594; Ricky Rudd (NASCAR) - 839; Ozzie Smith (MLB) - 707
|
|
|
|