General Forum

Just to make sure we're on the same page, overrated=Morris and underrated=Trammell, right? Not saying I agree, necessarily, but I'm guessing that's where you're going with this....

v3

Overrated=won more games than any other pitcher, apparently. 

But, but it's 2017! Wins don't mean anything anymore. I heard that next year's World Series Champion will be determined by an analysis of each team's total WAR (fWAR, not those ridiculous bWAR or rWAR stats), and the team with the highest will just be awarded the trophy. Same for all the awards....

Sorry. I remain a believer in the concept of a "winning" pitcher, regardless of the flaws with the system.

The more I think about it, Morris deserves to be in. He was among the most respected pitchers of the 80s. And he won a ton of games.

v3

I hear you loud and clear, V3.  Young guy at work always tries to push analytics on me. There is certainly some merit to it, but if you're the winning pitcher, THAT MEANS YOUR TEAM DIDN'T LOSE!  And it seems to me that's the point of it all.  Pitch better than the guy in the other dugout. Right?  And Morris did that more frequently than any other pitcher in the 80s.

I understand how some people think that there has to be a consolation stat for a good effort in a loss. However, these stats already exist. They’re in the form of ERA, WHIP, AVG, and OBP.

Jack Morris had more wins in the 80s than any other pitcher.  He also had more losses in the 80s than any other pitcher not named Jim Clancy or Frank Tanana.  And what an arbitrary timeframe, a decade!  Is there a difference between 1980-1989 vs 1985-1994?

Jack Morris was a guy that was on some good teams that did his job every 5th day.  I'll even allow that he was a really important part of some really good teams.  Does that make him a Hall of Famer?  Evidently this committee says "Yes".  I'd argue (and a lot of people already have argued) "No", but I'm not upset about him getting in.  I just don't consider him an elite pitcher.

I'm sorry, but the world seemed so much better to me last night after hearing the news of 2 Detroit legends getting the HOF nod.  I honestly didn't think anyone from that legendary '84 team would get in the HOF, but now they have 2 and the world seems right again.  My ONLY sad moment is that Sweet Lou doesn't go in with Tram where they played 19 years (in majors) together as a great 4-6 combo on the infield and turned more double plays than any other team of infielders in baseball - ever.  I'm really looking forward to July 29 now and am looking into maybe trying to attend the induction ceremony.

I've never been to Cooperstown, but I understand it is a tiny town and to try to get a hotel anywhere nearby for HOF weekend will be nearly impossible.  Is the induction ceremony open to the public?  Anyone with advice on that?

Thanks!

Yes, ceremony is open and FREE to the public!  I went to Ozzie Smith's.  Allow yourself plenty of time before it starts because you will probably park a mile or two away and walk.  I stayed near Syracuse somewhere and drove the rest of the way the next morning, but i was coming from Niagara Falls. And the more inductees, the bigger the crowd will be. Ozzie went in alone.

I’ve gone to Cooperstown twice, for Sandberg and Maddux. It was great. I get a flea bag motel about 45 minutes out and drive in. See the museum and town the day before, then hoof it over to the ceremony, which is crowded, hot, and outside, but free! 

(Lou Pinella played with Trammell?)

Kidding!

v3

My place in New York is 35 miles from Cooperstown.