General Forum

Personally, I'd prefer not logging every "variation", especially ones that are the result of a printing error.  If we were to include those, how long until people clamor for including mis-cut cards as variations?  Or cards where the front and back are from different cards?  Or cards with a little ink blob on them?  To me these are all defects, not distinctly different cards.

But if we were to let all these color variations in, it would be nice to include a setting to allow these to not show up if we don't want to see them.  I get a bit annoyed when I open up the checklist for a 500 card set and see another hundred listings.  Or (and I know this is way too much work to be feasible) put all these variations as a separate insert set (similarly set up as the buyback sets)

Hold the presses.

We're talking about 2 completely different things here.

Color variations on cards from the 1960s were exactly that - different printings led to different colors being used (yellow letters vs white letters). There was a complete difference in the printing set up.

These "color variations" in the 1980 Topps set - just look at the cards - are flaws in the printing process. These are NOT separate printings where Topps decided to change the color of the letters. In fact, the letters aren't even fully yellow, they still have some of the original color at the bottoms of the letters.

These are exactly what Admin calls printing flaws and he does NOT want them on his site, plain and simple.

This thread went in two different directions after a couple of posts. 

The color variations of the Fleer stickers are legitimate variations and should be listed. 

The links to the card images are not true variations and should not be listed.

I know all that has been said already I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring.

Well, very interesting but still haven't resolved anything. Do the previously highlighted 1980's name color variations belong or not? Some say yes, some say no and ADMIN has no answer. If Fred Stanley's color variation is accepted in most circles and price guides, Then why wouldn't we? 

To add, I just finished pulling '81 Donruss, THERE ARE VARs listed on cards missing  1/16" of a line, really??? There has to be an avenue for noting these VARs, without getting everybodys' panties in a bunch.

Also, please explain the '82 blackless as color variations, printing gliches, inky dinky stuff.

I don't understand the overall variation rationale for allowing some stuff, yet vehemently denying other stuff. Obviously a lot of listings have slipped through the cracks, why not some more?

I'm ammending my early answer on the 1980 Topps. I still don't think it's a variation, but I would classify it as an error. However, I think it is a print process error and I believe that ADMIN says we should not list those. I don't always agree with that stance, but like a good soldier I will salute the flag-pole and march on.

I believe that we should reflect the "general" hobby standards. If this database is to be used as a referance, then we must list cards that are of interest to the hobby. Fred Stanley's "Yellow Name" card has interest....to the tune of $$$$. If someone was researching that card and came to this database and did not find it listed we would lose credibility. 

I personally would like to attract and retain as many potential trade partners as possible. To do that we have to reflect the hobby (at least to some degree).

I also believe that we need to clearly define our terms, not just our abbreviations. Variations, errors, parallels, inserts, etc. have generated a lot of discussion with little overall consensus and no final, definitive answer.

Variation - A planned change in the card manufacturing process that creates a distinctive difference between two cards that hold the same spot on a checklist.

Error- An unintentional mistake in the card the manufacturing process that creates a distinctive difference from the intended card. (Registry errors exluded, ie diamond cut, off-center)

Error- An unintentional mistake in the card the manufacturing process that creates a distinctive difference from the intended card. (Registry errors exluded, ie diamond cut, off-center)

Nope - this would include cards that miss the foil, etc. Admin has clearly stated he doesn't want that on his site. That is even stated when you click on the "Insert Card" button and go to add a card:

"Please do not insert entries for cards with missing foil, wrong or blank backs, or that are mis-cut. These are not catalogued here as they are printing errors and are due to random misfires during the printing process."

I didn't mean to imply that I was trying to define any terms. I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to do that. Those were just my quick thoughts meant for discussion only.

I apologize if I made it appear otherwise.

Clarity of terms is is important to me, especially when adding a checklist. I appreciate discussions like this.....it's where I learn the most.

In discussing this, a couple of caveats need to be taken into consideration.  Is it one person with a discolored card?  Then no, we can’t add all of those as we would quickly junk up all of the checklists with cards that no one would be able to attain.  Is it something that someone who was motivated enough would be able to track down and is recognized by major card graders?  Then yes, we need to be open to adding those to the site as we’re here to reflect the hobby, hence why some of this stuff has been added over the years.  If we take such a hard line, then there are a few popular things that would need to come down.  1990 Topps Frank Thomas - no name on front and a few others come to mind. 

So in researching whether or not to add a variation request, one thing I’ll do is go to places where cards are sold to see how readily available it is.  If there’s only one copy and it’s being sold by the person who’s trying to get it added, then it probably doesn’t belong (this actually happened once).  If there are 10 copies of the card for sale and 3 of them have the variation, then it’s probably something we should consider adding.  So if there is a double standard, then that’s it.  How popular and pervasive is the variation?

I would like to thank ADMIN for a very upbeat response to our forum post. It looks like many ERRs/VARs/CORs can be added to the database. HOWEVER, I would certainly allow ADMIN to set the criteria. Here are definitions, that may help:

ERR - Error card.  A card with erroneous information, spelling, or depiction on either side of the card.  Most errors are not corrected by the producing card company.

Error Card (ERR) - A card that contains a mistake. An error card may have an incorrect photo, a misspelled name or incorrect statistical information. Error cards will only be worth more money if the mistake was corrected, and the card that was printed in the fewest quantity is worth the most. Not necessary the card with the error.

VAR - variation Card

variation (VAR)- A card that is different, usually subtly, from its more common counterpart in any set. Some variations are error cards that were corrected by the manufacturers, while other variations might be as simple as a color change in the background of the card. Many variations are extremely rare, as they were corrections made early on in the press run, and therefore, have considerable value. The variation with the least amount printed would be the most expensive. This can also apply to other forms of memorabilia such as Armour Coins 1955 Mickey Mantle Variation for example.

As you can see many cards fit the definitions, actually many cards in the database are incorrectly identified with VAR, ERR or COR designations.

The following are a couple of interesting finds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_card

https://junkwaxandobservations.blogspot.com/2015/07/

 FYI, ~Bob~

I agree that we can't have every discolored card. I've seen discolored cards in the windows of card shops. The only error was the one the owner made when he left it in the sun for eleven years.  Errors and variations, to me, mean the printing press was set up to spit out cards a certain way, and every card of that player came out the same.  Then the press was changed to fix the spelling, the color, or whatever, and all the cards of that player now came out the new way.