Card Identification Forum

OK guys...for Christmas I got a set of the 1987 "Memorable Moments by Louis Rich" Cleveland Browns cards.  It's a 5 card set.  I got the set added and was going to put up a checklist (and then load the images), but I have a problem.  The orignial set was intended to include a contest, so one of the cards doesn't list the player's name, but just a question mark.

Here's the problem.  #86 on the Browns was worn by Dub Jones up until 1952.  In 1952, he changed to #40, and Dante Lavelli changed his number to #86.  I don't know enough of what these guys looked like to be able to identify which player is pictured (both are white, so the skin tone doesn't help).  Beckett lays out an argument that the picture is Lavelli because the helmet is plastic and the Browns switched to the plastic helmets in 1952, but I don't know how accurate that information is, and a LOT of people on the internet are insisting the picture is of Dub Jones, including the person from whom the set was purchased who claims the photo doesn't look like Lavelli at all.  

So, do I go with Beckett and put it in as a Lavelli card?  Do I go with the internet and call it Dub Jones?  Do I go with the name on the card and just put in '?' or "Player #86" of something like that?

Can anyone verify for CERTAIN who the player pictured is?

At first I wanted to say it was Jones.   But upon further investigation, I believe it is Lavelli.   I opened another window http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Dante+Lavelli+Cleveland+Browns&FORM=IRIBQP

 and if you look in the 2nd column until you come to a pink autograph card.    There is the same photograph two above and two below the  pink auto.     I lined it up to where your photo would be and flip flopped between the two windows and the face looks the same.  What do you think?

Angus (username armac) is THE Cleveland Browns expert. I'd go with what he says. 

Yeah, I can't tell for sure.  In looking, when I search for "1951 Browns", all of the pictures have solid white helmets.  When I search for "1952 Browns", the players are in orange helmets with a white stripe similar to the one on the card, which would tend to support Beckett's analysis.  I just hate putting in the wrong name...

Yes, that uniform/helmet design started in 1952, the same year Lavelli started wearing #86.  

Looking at faces, I would definitely HAVE to say it's Dub Jones.  Dante Lavelli has a much "chubbier" face with a very long, wide nose.  Jones has a much slimmer face with a long, narrow nose.  Based on all of the pictures I've seen of the two in and out of uniform (Google their names then go to images), I can't see any way this is Lavelli because the player in the picture definitely has a slim face with a long, narrow nose.

Can't be Dub Jones. In 1952, the first year of that uniform/helmet, Dub Jones changed to #40.

Celticwolfco wrote:

Looking at faces, I would definitely HAVE to say it's Dub Jones.  Dante Lavelli has a much "chubbier" face with a very long, wide nose.  Jones has a much slimmer face with a long, narrow nose.  Based on all of the pictures I've seen of the two in and out of uniform (Google their names then go to images), I can't see any way this is Lavelli because the player in the picture definitely has a slim face with a long, narrow nose.

So basically, this card is a contest that has now been going on for 31 years, with no clear winner.  Or...the manufacturer didn't know who it was either and was looking for a Browns fan who could identify an old picture he found, so he made a "contest" card out of it.

Looks more like Dub to me.  Also resembles Dub's son Bert.  And I just watched video footage of Dub in the 86 jersey and plastic helmet, so that argument won't convince me.  So my vote is for Jones.

Further research; that uniform and specific helmet was only worn from 1952 to 1956.  Dante Lavelli wore #86 from 1952 to 1956.