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vrooomed
Posts: 14,826
Joined: Dec 2012
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:17 PM | |
And the problem is regarding the white border version of the Celtics cards.
They look to be fakes.
Older documentation has no mention of a variation. I have no documentation of a variation.
Look at the lack of crispness in the photos on the WBs. Look at the text on the back of the WBs compared to the GBs. If they were issued at the same time, they'd look the same, like the rest of the set does. These look different. As someone who is very familiar with Star Co sets, I'm going to say without doubt, they are fakes.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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C2Cigars
Posts: 11,340
Joined: Oct 2014
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:31 PM | |
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Someday my cards may double in value and then be worth half of what I paid for them.
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hphillips
Posts: 83
Joined: Jan 2016
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:31 PM | |
Hard to see, but the lines that are supposed to be visible on the basketball on the back, also questionable. Definitely looks like Billy's cards may be fakes by a manufacturer that couldn't quite get the font right. Have to agree with Dan, sorry to bear bad news Billy :(
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,826
Joined: Dec 2012
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:42 PM | |
Sad part is - they're listed at Beckett (but weren't back in the 1990s) and COMC even has both variations - but only one of the WB (of Bird) but many of the GB.
Also - their scans look a little more in line with looking potentially legit, however, I really have no clue where they came from.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,826
Joined: Dec 2012
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 8:59 PM | |
Further comparison, which guarantees we didn't print the set with 2 different borders: (Disclaimer - I've only really investigated the Bird card)
1 - Photo on front is cropped differently. If and when we did cards with different colors, we would have used the same "set-up" (photos, and everything else, we would have just changed the color scheme).
2 - The text on the back - the card number is in a different spot. The rest of the text moves all over the place if you flip back and forth between the two cards.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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UKboogie
Posts: 765
Joined: Sep 2015
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 9:25 PM | |
I have the white and green borders. Based on the scans I notice a difference in the McHales because of the player on the left and how much of the Nets shows up on his jersey. But with it also being Star I tend to overlook the quality control.
Maybe I'll upload some new scans tomorrow and let the experts tell me which is from which to see if we are really on to something.
Fine tune those monacles boys, the challenge is coming...
But I do have a day job so it won't be until tomorrow night. The peanut gallery may actually catch fire on this one.
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,826
Joined: Dec 2012
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 9:46 PM | |
I look forward to seeing these scans.
When did you obtain these sets?
I have a suspicion that the white sets may be part of the "Star Co reprint scandal" of the late 1990s. Multiple sources state that the owner of Star Co went back to the original printing plates, and reprinted several issues. Considering I may still have a few scars on the sides of my knees from cutting them on the printing plates that were in the warehouse, I know they existed and were still usable. They were never destroyed. Not wanting to say anything slanderous about any individuals, I will not state opinions of character. I only present facts.
The full team set NBA run was complete before I started with Star. Star had a serious problem trying to sell the NBA cards. No one seemed to want them when they were first released. Many of the unsold sets were not destroyed. Many, if not most, of the specialty baseball sets released during 1988-1992 were destroyed. I was personally responsible for tearing them in half. We destroyed thousands upon thousands of cards. But no 1980s NBA (or very little, if any).
I have a basketball Beckett here from March 1993. There is NO mention of a white variation. This was 7-8 years after the release of the real set. We all know Beckett documented the hell out of variations. No variation mentioned at this point. Makes one wonder when the variation was "discovered" or "introduced". I also have a Tuff Stuff from 1997 with no mention of a variation.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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hphillips
Posts: 83
Joined: Jan 2016
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Sunday, May 8, 2016 10:24 PM | |
The Beckett Basketball Price Guide #8 from 2000 mentions the white variation Celtics BUT also states that those numbers thru 176 were heavily counterfeited and prevalent on the market.
Edited on: May 8, 2016 - 10:25PM
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Billy Kingsley
Posts: 7,510
Joined: Aug 2011
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Monday, May 9, 2016 2:41 AM | |
Well, that would stink. They "feel" right, and have the same curve and paper quality as other Star cards. They were not factory sealed when I got them, but in a team bag. I got them in a tiny shop on Cape Cod in either 2003 or 2004 which has long since closed. (I have the exact date I got them in my paper listing) I also got a really poor copy of 1961-62 Fleer Al Attles that would not have been good enough to post to the Database had it been open the same trip.
My lack of familiarity with Star cards- they are so darn hard to find, especially 1985-86-I didn't know they were even availble with a green border until I joined the Database.
I was collecting in the late 1990s (began 1988, never stopped) and have never heard of the scandal mentioned. Perhaps I did and just forgot, my health problems HAVE affected my memory. If that is the case, how is it different from, say, this set? If the owner of the company is producing them, then I would say they are legitimate, BUT should not be in the main listing for the original set. I, however, don't know any of the details of the scandal mentioned.
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VERY slow trading due to health problems. Not transferrable so safe to trade with, just moving is painful and can't always access the cards. Cardboard History My COMC New Collection Website: Cardboard History Gallery (Still under construction) Tips on how to make your scans look like the card does in hand (No more washed out, fuzzy scans!):
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,826
Joined: Dec 2012
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Monday, May 9, 2016 6:02 AM | |
If that is the case, how is it different from, say, this set?
The difference, for one, is Topps clearly marked it as a reprint set. From all that I read (I stopped work for Star in 1993), this looks like the owner took the original printing plates (which I saw) and got a printer in Florida to "recreate" some of the 1980s NBA cards. If he did this, it's terrible for the hobby, and it's particularly terrible for us in the hobby to authenticate anything that was ever released by Star. From what I have read, it appears as though he actually did.
Again, it's odd that there is no mention of a white variant in any publications until 2000. (Which is after the alledged reprint occurred.) Only because I obtained any of the Star stuff I have in 1993 or prior, can *I* know I have the real deal. Unfortunately, with the info available out there now, there is no way to guarantee anything else and I can't even prove that fact on what I own.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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