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vrooomed
Posts: 14,829
Joined: Dec 2012
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Saturday, November 9, 2019 2:25 PM | |
I'll just add this here, and hopefully not have to address this any further.
The site is crowd-sourced, as well as crowd-policed. Anything that gets posted should be scrutinized. There is not enough time in the day for any one person to review every set, checklist, and scan added(. That's what the IR system is for.)
If someone has "gone rogue" and posted something on the site that violates the rules and guidelines, the only way to get it removed is to have it be reported by someone. (Which then is brought to Admin's attention, who is the only one who can remove images and/or checklists with images/collection data.)
If your opinion of the database is going to be altered by what someone does on their own without regard to the site's rules/guidelines, there's nothing we can do to help you. This is an ongoing issue, that with the current setup here will always be an issue. If you see something you don't feel should be here, report it. That's the only way we'll know what's here that should potentially be removed.
On a side note, last I checked, the IRs put in on the other sets are still there in the system - waiting for Admin's decision.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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Saturday, November 9, 2019 4:47 PM | |
Hey I'm all in !
And I've said this WAY too many times. The Rules and Guidelines in so many areas are ill-defined. Just not clear enough, so it opens things up for the "violators". Unless a post gets scrutinized over and over does it come to a kinda accetable "rule". So as they say, "You have to punt". Maybe it stays, maybe it's IRed and maybe Admin acts, eventually.
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spazmatastic
Posts: 5,905
Joined: Dec 2014
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Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:46 PM | |
I've got to chime in now. ACEO started as a legit term for specific cards from a specific group, but has since become the "Broder" of the 2010's. Now there are other people making "false" cards and using the ACEO term to sell them online. Copycat bootleggers is what's going on there. If they actually show league/team logos without any copyrights, they are illegal productions. PERIOD! No discussion is needed there. Therefore, they should NOT be listed on TCDB b/c they are illegal cards. "Made-to-order" doesn't change anything about the reason to not list them here. Fakers, counterfeiters and homemade card makers are now using the ACEO term to sell cards online to un-informed collectors. IMO, that's even worse than what happened in the late 80's to mid 90's with Broder-style cards. Anyone can make tons of cards today without spending much for supplies or the technology to do it.
My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be listed here if it wasn't available in physical stores of any kind (for hobby or retail), directly from a licensed manufacturer, as a stadium promotion from any sport OR as a mail-in redemption from any of the above. The only "reprints" that should be allowed on TCDB would be from the companies that originally made them or have acquired those licenses from defunct companies (such as UD making Fleer stuff and Panini making Donruss/Leaf and Score stuff).
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NO PWE's EVER!!! PLZ PM me 1st before sending any offer. ONLY selling cards as of March 2024. No trades or purchases right now. _______________________________________________________________________ Largest total PC card collections by Team, then Athlete (as of 3/22/24): STL Cardinals (MLB) - 8810; Carolina Panthers - 2888; GB Packers - 1790+ cards Mark Martin (NASCAR) - 2038 cards; Jimmie Johnson (NASCAR) - 1875 cards; Jeff Gordon (NASCAR) - 1594; Ricky Rudd (NASCAR) - 839; Ozzie Smith (MLB) - 707
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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Sunday, November 10, 2019 7:22 AM | |
In response.
1. Are we calling ACEO cards Broder cards? If so, what do we do? Broders and other unlicensed cards are found all through the TCDB listings since the '80s ad '90s. Remove all such cards [HUGE job], footnote new, 2000+ ACEO cards by allowing some and not others [probably a new rule is needed then]. As usual, we find ourself in a pickle. I just ordered a set of non-sports cards, legit printers but not a CARD Co. They were mass produced and sold online, not sure about stores. Not made to order. Verdict????
2. Reprints, another "loose" term. There are a lot of reprints listed. One of the largest, Fritsch Cards are legit, they offer plenty of reprints. Verdict ????
There will always be a new issue here, I say "illud est quod est", just deal with it. Personally not sure even Admin what's to deal with it.
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,829
Joined: Dec 2012
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Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:43 AM | |
Bob, you misread Spaz's post. He wrote "has since become the "Broder" of the 2010's."
He is not calling them Broders - he's comparing them to them, and notes the differences.
Reprints that are marked on them that they are reprints (or differ from the original in a specific way to not confuse people) are legit, and should be listed. Those with no markings, exactly duplicating the orignal product are fakes and should not be listed.
Why do we have to keep repeating ourselves here. This all has been gone over 1,000 times.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:59 AM | |
1001, lmao, Right, I won't question or comment in excess in the future. I'll just do what feels right for me, although could be deemed wrong by the L8s or any other anal. I was told many years ago ask questions before doing anything. Now I ask and ask and question again, IF I DON'T UNDERSTAND the unclear interpretation, then I'll just do until IRed. Let the Crowd Sourced Police do their job. NOW,, don't get me wrong, if the rule is absolutely clear, no problem, then I will follow it to a T. Can't do any better than that. "illud est quod est",
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,829
Joined: Dec 2012
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Sunday, November 10, 2019 11:04 AM | |
I'm done. Thanks Bob. You've pushed me over the edge. I quit.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
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Billy Kingsley
Posts: 7,510
Joined: Aug 2011
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Sportzcommish
Posts: 5,977
Joined: Oct 2016
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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:11 PM | |
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Follow my blog - I Identify as a Card Collector. “Aslan didn't tell Pole what would happen. He only told her what to do. That fellow will be the death of us once he's up, I shouldn't wonder. But that doesn't let us off following the signs.” - Puddleglum in The Silver Chair by C. S. Lewis
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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Sunday, November 10, 2019 2:43 PM | |
Ha, it's not Bob, it's always Bob, How about the rules, the guidelines, the unanswered questions. You have an a*******er mentality. Funny, everybody else gets answers, All direct answers. Do we follow objectivity or subjectivity? In my years here, it appears whatever the majority rallies around is the answer. And I'm really uncertain. Anyway, Let's try this:
Are ALL ACEO cards not listable?
Are ALL ACEO cards being IRed? Then removed?
Can I list my non-sport set, bought online, sold online, not made to order, not homemade, many sets produced and released? They fit all other card criteria. Very simple.
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