Posted By | Message |
spazmatastic
Posts: 5,905
Joined: Dec 2014
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:30 AM | |
Looks like I was the one to put the pot on the fire though.
AJP was nothing compared to Yadi. AND Pudge was my all-time favorite catcher before Molina came along.
-------------------------------
NO PWE's EVER!!! PLZ PM me 1st before sending any offer. ONLY selling cards as of March 2024. No trades or purchases right now. _______________________________________________________________________ Largest total PC card collections by Team, then Athlete (as of 3/22/24): STL Cardinals (MLB) - 8810; Carolina Panthers - 2888; GB Packers - 1790+ cards Mark Martin (NASCAR) - 2038 cards; Jimmie Johnson (NASCAR) - 1875 cards; Jeff Gordon (NASCAR) - 1594; Ricky Rudd (NASCAR) - 839; Ozzie Smith (MLB) - 707
|
|
|
|
Splinter_9
Posts: 743
Joined: Sep 2013
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:56 AM | |
Absolutely. He won more games over a very specific 10 year period than anyone else. He never won a Cy Young. Never won an ERA title. Led his league in Ks once (but also BBs once). His ERA was basically league average. He only made 5 All Star games. He was helped by some good teams. Morris was a guy you needed on your team. He was out there every 5th day pitching, never missing a start from 1980 to 1992. But he's vastly overrated. He's not a Hall of Famer (to me).
Trammel belongs in. So does Whitaker. Morris doesn't drag the standards of the Hall of Fame down much, but he was the wrong Tiger to induct with Trammel.
-------------------------------
A man has to have goals — for a day, for a lifetime — and that was mine, to have people say, "There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived."
|
|
|
|
spazmatastic
Posts: 5,905
Joined: Dec 2014
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 1:03 AM | |
V3 - Thanks for agreeing about Yadi. I don't see any way he doesn't get in the Hall, but I think it will be on the 1st ballot.
To the doubters - As mentioned before: 2 rings and 8 GG's so far. Ozzie Smith was a 1st ballot HOFer purely for defense and he was a shortstop with 1 ring and 13 straight GG's. His BA was only .262.
Yadier's defense is astounding. He makes regular pitchers look great with his game management and it's very rare for anyone to steal a base when he's behind the plate. His offensive stats have continued to get better each year for the last 5+ years. And he is a team leader! He makes everyone around him play smarter and better. If Yadi continues his numbers and continues playing 110+ games a year, there's no way he doesn't get in at the first chance.
Posey has the offensive numbers to get in the Hall and his defense is pretty good too. He also has the rings to match Molina. I don't think Mauer had the longevity behind the plate to get in just from what he did as a catcher. I'm not saying he won't get in, just that he couldn't play at catcher long enough to guarantee a spot there. Look at all the players that went from OF to 1B or DH to extend their careers. It only worked for them b/c they had/have the offensive power to make them useful on the team. But then they get walked a lot b/c the opponents know they don't have the speed anymore to get around the bases when the next batter gets a hit.
-------------------------------
NO PWE's EVER!!! PLZ PM me 1st before sending any offer. ONLY selling cards as of March 2024. No trades or purchases right now. _______________________________________________________________________ Largest total PC card collections by Team, then Athlete (as of 3/22/24): STL Cardinals (MLB) - 8810; Carolina Panthers - 2888; GB Packers - 1790+ cards Mark Martin (NASCAR) - 2038 cards; Jimmie Johnson (NASCAR) - 1875 cards; Jeff Gordon (NASCAR) - 1594; Ricky Rudd (NASCAR) - 839; Ozzie Smith (MLB) - 707
|
|
|
|
vrooomed
Posts: 14,826
Joined: Dec 2012
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 7:07 AM | |
Spaz, you might want to take off those cardinals-tinted glasses. :)
Basically, how you described Yadi truly is about the same description one can give for about 30-50 other players who have not been enshrined. As one other poster mentioned, it will depend on who else is on the ballot when Yadi winds up on it, and I think he'll probably wind up getting inducted, but I don't know if it will be on the first ballot.
I'm glad to see Trammell and Morris get their recognition. I was never big on Trammell while he played, but I wasn't surprised to hear he got the votes. However, I was always surprised each year when Morris didn't get enough votes on the regular ballot. And I really thought after 6 straight years of increased numbers of votes preceding his final year on the ballot he was finally going to get enough that last year and then it went down. I wasn't a huge Jack Morris fan, but I saw the guy pitch enough to see that he deserved to be there every bit as much as many of the other pitchers that are there (yeah, I'm specifically looking at you Blyleven and Sutton).
Edited to fix typos.
Edited on: Dec 13, 2017 - 7:12AM -------------------------------
-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 3/4/2024). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned on (details are in my profile).
|
|
|
|
Vvvergeer
Posts: 2,057
Joined: Jan 2014
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:28 AM | |
My glasses are tinted Cubbie blue, but I still think Molina is a no doubt Hall of Famer. I'll back down and say it might take a year or three. But, as a catcher, I stand by my position that he's in a class by himself over the last decade.
v3
|
|
|
|
jupiterhill
Posts: 1,225
Joined: Jun 2013
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:19 AM | |
Ugh, making me log in to my main account just to settle this debate. ARGHHH!
First, I'm happy for Jack and Alan, personally I think both deserve it and glad they both got in. Might even do a blog about it.
Anyways, onto Yadi. I can't stand him, I just really don't like him. The icing was the time he spit and bumped the ump (accidental or purposelly, I don't tolerate it). It's one reason why I soured on Roberto Alomar so quickly too.
Having said that though, I can say without a doubt he will go into the Hall of Fame, much easier than any catcher playing today. I think Buster Posey will go in too, but it depends who else is on the ballot when he's up. If people had to choose between the two, I'd say Yadi everytime. I think coastal bias might have something to do with Molina being doubtful to some, but no way it will take more than 3 years to get in once elgible. I won't comment on Mauer because I honestly forgot about him, which isn't a good sign when considering someone for the hall.
As for the whole first ballot stuff, I really don't care much if a player makes it in on the first ballot or the last as long as they get in and deserve it. Some get upset when someone only gets 90% of the vote, but I've always been along the lines of "as long as they get over the 75% it doesn't matter how many votes they get".
It will be fun to revisit this once Posey and Yadi are up for eligibilty. Now back to my other account to finish some work. I wish I trusted myself enough to use mulitple collections on here, but know I'll screw that up.
-------------------------------
Royal Card Review is my blog if you feel like checking it out, thanks if you do!- royalcardreview.blogspot.com/ In the process of updating my collection so don't trust any of my lists right now.
|
|
|
|
Kaline6
Posts: 745
Joined: Nov 2014
|
Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:26 AM | |
I have Tiger tinted glasses. Happy to see both Morris and Trammell in. Agree with Trams assesment that Sweet Lou should go in with him as best and longest DP combination. Watched Morris pitch every 5th day, while not having great E.R.A., had a penchant for winning the big games. I see a lot of players go in in last few years I have questioned, but the standards have dropped since the initial classes to go in of the 30's - 60's. It's good for Tiger fans, it's good for me.
-------------------------------
"He stood there like the house by the side of the road, and watched that one go by." - Ernie Harwell
|
|
|
|
RoundtheDiamond87
Posts: 808
Joined: Oct 2015
|
Friday, December 15, 2017 7:54 AM | |
Now, I'll have to start moving all of my A.Trammell and J.Morris cards from my Semi-Star stacks to my Unlisted Star stacks. I doubt Beckett will make the adjustment though. They're too busy prospecting on year-old cards. Ron Santo is still treated as a Minor Star in their guides.
Edited on: Dec 15, 2017 - 7:58AM
|
|
|
|
Vvvergeer
Posts: 2,057
Joined: Jan 2014
|
Friday, December 15, 2017 8:13 AM | |
Thank you for noticiing the Santo thing! That always bugged me. How is a Hall of Famer a "minor star." I understand that not all Hall of Famers are treated equally, nor should they be, but if you're in the Hall of Fame, you're a star, pretty much by definition. (Except for The Cars.)
v3
|
|
|
|
C2Cigars
Posts: 11,342
Joined: Oct 2014
|
Friday, December 15, 2017 8:46 AM | |
You have to remember, the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame is not about Rock n Roll, nor fame. It's about getting more visitors and more money. The more genres in the Hall, the more visitors, the more money in pockets. But, it doesn't work for me. I'll never visit that joke of a Hall of Fame.
-------------------------------
Someday my cards may double in value and then be worth half of what I paid for them.
|
|
|
|