General Forum

This is indeed a great list of borderline candidates.  I think the arguments are clear as to why none of them are in, but also why they are all under consideration.  My two cents:  

Marvin Miller should already be in--absolutely no idea why he's not.  (Totally agree on non-player balloting comments, though.)

I grew up in an NL town and even I knew Jack Morris was to be feared (and he didn't need Denkinger to beat us in '87).  He was the #1 or #2 pitcher on three World Championship teams in three different cities, right?  I'm honestly surprised he didn't get to 75% in his last year on the BBWAA ballot.  He's on my ballot if I'm on the panel.

I haven't compared the stats the way some others did here (Parker vs. Rice), but as an opposing fan Dave Parker always seemed equivalent to Andre Dawson.  Offense...defense...leadership...and again feared.  I think he's right there on the border, but he does get one of my votes.

I admit that Dale Murphy, Steve Garvey and Don Mattingly are three guys I always have to double-check to make sure they're NOT in the hall already (along with a few I have to double-check that they ARE in, like Sutton and Rice).  But those three just don't feel right to me.  I guess I'd put Murphy at the top of that list if I had to pick one.  But I don't, so I won't.  But he'd be my fourth on this list.

Luis Tiant and Tommy John are at the bottom of this list for me.  I'd almost consider throwing Tommy John in to the
"contributors" ballot along with Marvin Miller.  Of course maybe his surgeon is just as fitting (or moreso) to be on that ballot.

My friends here in SE Michigan insist Alan Trammell was as forsaken by BBWAA voters as Jack Morris was.  But I was a teenager in St. Louis in the early 80's when ESPN was a fledgling and SportsCenter was must-see TV.  Trammell wasn't someone on my radar the way Mattingly and others were.  Maybe the comments here are right that if he played in NYC or LA he'd be in already.  And maybe if I didn't see Ozzie Smith play every day he'd be on my ballot, too.  But I did.  So he's not.  

Finally, I can tell you that I never, ever, EVER thought of Ted Simmons as Hall of Fame worthy despite him being my favorite Redbird back in the 70s.  That could be for the same reason as my Trammell argument above, but substituting Johnny Bench for the Wizard.  But a few years back when this committee was considering the 70's/80's era I heard some really compelling arguments on how Simmons' career--and especially the 70s--compare to his corresponding catching counterparts including Bench, Fisk and Carter.  I'm not going to say he's on my ballot, but if you're not familiar with his career it's worth the time for you to take a look and give him some consideration.  And I probably owe him an apology for underrating him all these years.

Found this interesting

https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/platform/amp/2017/11/7/16619434/mlb-hall-of-fame-modern-era-nominees-steve-garvey-alan-trammell

Great article. Thanks for the link, Commish. 

Nice article. In the end, expresses a lot of what people are expressing here. So, again, no one old gets in this year. Except Marvin Miller.

Is this where and when I start campaigning for Ed Reulbach?

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Morris stands out to me as the most HOF worthy on this list, but I don't think he should be in. Murphy though...maybe, just maybe.

Another article with a different perspective, enough to make me rescind my votes. 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/11/08/baseball-hall-of-fame-ignoring-lou-whitaker-bobby-grich/

I won't comment on the cases for the players on the original list.  But I do want to comment.

The problem with almost all HOF arguments is the starting point.  I don't think its appropriate to start with "Player X" belongs/doesn't belong in the HOF.  The discussion should start with "Who is/are the very best player(s) who are NOT yet in the HOF?".  Once you get the answer(s) to that question (not the easiest, but attainable), then you can debate the merits of the candidates.

My 2 cents worth.

After reading this entire thread, my 1st two picks would still be Mattingly and Murphy. My second 2 picks (after seeing that there are 4 votes per person) would be Morris and Trammell.

I didn't really know anything about Miller, so I looked up his info. He totally should be in as an Executive for the work he did with the MLBPA. He shouldn't be in this list of players though! BUT, at the same time, he messed up so much for future generations. Curt Flood gave up his playing career to fight for what Miller told him was the right thing to do. Curt had a HOF-worthy career going before he abandoned it all to fight for equality in pay. I am in complete agreement with what Flood did for player rights, but I think Miller pushed him towards that. Flood could have been in the HOF as a player if he played out his career, but he gave that career up to fight for more rights for the players. I totally admire that, but the MLB doesn't give a damn about that b/c they've denied Flood and Miller their right to be in the HOF.

What it has done since then is get players hundreds of millions of dollars that they didn't exactly deserve. Free Agency in every sport has caused ticket prices to soar drastically to cover salaries and upgrades to facilities. It doesn't seem so bad in the MLB because there are so many games that they can keep ticket prices pretty low. But in the other sports, ticket prices are ridiculous. NFL games cost a minimum of $50 a seat now for the nose-bleed sections, no matter how bad the team is that year (or how bad they were last year).

Players totally deserve the freedom to choose who they play for and always should have that freedom. But "Free Agency" is constantly jacking up the price for everyone else. I'd bet money that tickets to any Yankees game are 3x higher than almost every other team in the MLB!

It's the same thing as the government charging you more for the things you already pay for with your taxes. These people over here need more food stamps and we can't pay for them. You people on this side don't need food stamps, so you should help pay for those others that do need them. How about a gas tax to help pay for the roads, a "sin" tax on cigarettes/alcohol/soda/etc. to cover our police officers, EMT and fire dept. responding to wrecks, house fires and medical emergencies.

OK, I gotta stop there. Getting off topic and maybe out of line. Sorry for starting to rant. Going to bed now!

The interesting case for Tiant.

https://sabrbaseballcards.blog/2017/11/09/an-ode-to-el-tiante/amp/

Not so much a full case for Tiant, as a huge man crush on the guy. But fun read, nonetheless. 

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