General Forum

You're right there Ranford.  I don't actually deal with the insurance.  I really am in the accounting department there.  Which is why I have no idea about the collection insurance and would have to ask someone else!!

I have run across this question MANY times over the past 20 years or so. The answer has basically stayed the same for all of those years. It simply isn't worth it to insure a large collection. With the collection constantly changing due to additions and subtractions, you couldn't keep the insurance company informed fast enough. They can't send someone to you every week to see what's been sold/traded and what's been added. The price of insuring a general collection value would end up being more than the collection is worth after only a few years.

My #1 concern about my collection has always been "What if disaster strikes?"! The answer is that I lose a lot of my collection. Fire would destroy everything (and insurance won't help much there anyway), flood would destroy a lot but not the best stuff, and a tornado would send my collection to someone else! The most extreme concern here in NC is hurricanes, but that involves everything I already mentioned. The best you can do to protect your collection has nothing to do with insurance. Protect the cards! Many of them can't be replaced and the money from an insurance company isn't going to bring them back, even with paying tons of money to insure them. If you have money to insure the collection, it's better spent to buy safes/vaults/etc. to protect them from anything that can destroy them. Just my 2 cents!

I have asked 2 different State Farm agents and 1 Allstate agent about getting a rider or policy for my collection.  All 3 told me that I could insure the cards for a yearly fee of 10% of my stated value.  That is if I claimed my collection was worth $100,000 I had to pay them $10,000 a year.  I personally thought that was nuts, so.... no insurance.  It seems like there should be some sort of policy available for the "average Joe" to insure a card, stamp or coin collection.  If anyone has ever run across an insurance compnay that does this I'd love to hear about it.  In the mean time, I just have fun looking for and collecting cards.

kcjays 

Maybe this should lead to a different thread, but spazmatastic brought the topic up about "safes/vaults/etc.".  I do have my most valuable cards in what are referred to as fireproof, waterproof safes.  I had toyed with a gun safe, as the storage volume per dollar is perhaps optimal when they go on sale for hunters.  But they don't seem to be waterproof (at least no seals that I could see).  When would water get in?  I guess only during a fire, unless for some reason I get at least four inches of water in my house and it could seep into the crack at the bottom of the gun safe door.  So I was almost ready to buy one, and then a different thought hit me.

We all have these cards protected in plastic toploaders, or plastic cases, or graded cards in plastic cases.  So we put them in the safe, and the safe is protecting them for---let's say in this example--30 minutes at 1300 degrees Farenheit.  Sounds great.  But inside the safe, surely the temperature also rises.  Does it melt the plastic?  If so, we are still talking about ruined cards.

What do those of you with safes think about the need to be waterproof, and what do you think the risks are for plastic melting inside in the case the safes are exposed to a fire?

--Kent

I agree with the philosophy that a safe is better than an insurance policy.  When I was safe shopping years ago, the rule of thumb that I heard was that the safe should cost at least 10% of the value of the items you are going to protect.  Any less than that and it probably won't afford enough protection.  At least with a safe you have a one-time expense, unlike an insurance policy that will cost you every year.

Here is a good summary of the factors to consider when buying a safe:

Consumer Reports

Remember, when you pay for a safe, it buys you time.  A fire-rated safe buys you time in a fire.  A tool-rated safe buys you time during a burglary. A water resistance rated safe buys you time in a flood.  Getting all three together is costly.

With a safe intended for media (125 to 150 degree max internal temp after 30 minutes to 1 hour) I would not be worried about it affecting the sleeves or pages.  The 350 degree limit of a safe intended for paper might be pushing it though.  Anyone have some junk pages and sleeves they want to throw in the oven for an hour?  (LOL...careful...if they do melt, it might stink up the oven!)

-Tom

I just don't think cards really hold that much value.  Enjoy your collection while you can.  If a natural disaster hits, then--oh well--it was fun while it lasted.  We can't take these things with us when we're gone.  No heir is going to ever value your collections the way you do.  Having completed nearly the whole collection of Topps baseball from 1951-present, I'd feel better about using my collection to start a bonfire than to try to figure out how I can make it survive the apocalypse.  My collection is stored in binder pages and is treated like another book on the shelf--Mickey Mantles, Ted Williams, Stan Musials, Roberto Clementes, Jackie Robinsons, Hank Aarons, and all. 

Thanks for the insight on a media safe vs. a paper file safe, Tom.  I didn't know that, and will have to keep that in mind.

Kent

Sadly I'm with RD87 for the msot part, I cant expect anyone to want what I collect as much as I do so what happens happens. Costs are too high for the most part for all options as well. Risk VS Reward. Plain and simple.

On another note though listen to this tale ............

about 7 years ago I had a frost-free outside tap freeze up and flood my mancave. Not thinking I had built the mancave`s closet right below said tap. Comics, cards, SW toy collection all sorts of things soaked. 95% of the comics were all in bags n boards so a HUGE thumbs up, the hockey cards that I lost went straight into the bin as they were a solid block of waterlogged cardboard, SW toys were still sealed in packaging but it was all warped and ruined from the water as well. Literally started to cry as it was a nut kicker. Long story short we made a claim and here is how the insurance company paid out. Hockey cards (or as they called it Sports Memorabilia) paid out to $800 max. Comics were 100% replaced as "reading material". SW toys were 100% replaced as "general toys". So the wife always gets guaranteed replacement cost (meaning whatever the replacement costs they pay it), because of this my IC paid over $100 each for a couple of my SW toys and $20 to $30 for some of my comics. No ceiling. Some toys came from US to replace, they even paid the shipping costs. In my opinuon why not the cards as well. But nope Sports Mem and Collectible Currency both have limits on our policy unless value is verified by a certified appraiser and a rider policy is attached. Typical insurance company nonsense, IMO.

For what it's worth, because of this thread, I just checked with our insurance guy. My collection is listed as a separate item for what I claim it's worth, which is approximately Beckett prices (the actual value of the shape the card or set is in, not NM for everything). He's got a list of every card I own (being a set collector makes that easier -- I just listed that I own the complete Topps sets from 1972 to present and approximate value based on average condietion). I just updated the list and gave it to him for the first time in about three years. If I had a single card worth over $10,000, I'd have to have it appraised. No worry there, I assure you. But for everything else, at least for now, I'm told it would be covered. It doesn't cost any more than insuring a piece of jewelry or other item of that value.

As to the more philosophical discussions people have entered into....I'm not sure, should disaster strike, that I would spend the insurance money on baseball cards. I don't know if I'd even keep collecting. Maybe I'd restart and buy some of the cards that are special to me. Maybe not. But the fact is that the cards are worth something -- a fair amount, actually -- and I don't see why I wouldn't want the replacement value for them any less than I'd want replacement value of my wedding ring being stolen or anything else that has value. Of course I enjoy my collection. But I've sunk a fair amount of money into it, as well.

As for someone enjoying my collection after I'm dead, which I think someone brought up...I'm sure no one will. I collect for me and "for the love of the hobby," as someone has on his tagline here. But I figure my kids will keep some token cards to remember me by and, with just a small amount of diligence, sell the rest through consignment or something. That's what I did with my late father's coin collection. I had some of them framed, kept a box of random stuff that he hand-labelled, and sold the rest for about $20,000 to a coin shop to pay some tuition for my kid. I hope some new collector is enjoying those coins.

The fact that I love my collection and do not look at is as an investment doesn't mean I need to ignore its value, doesn't mean I or someone else can't eventually take advantage of that value under whatever circumstances come about to make the money relevant -- whether it be a fire, flood, or my timely or untimely death.

That was cheery! Can't wait to see what cards the wife and kids got me for the holidays. High number 71's, I bet.

v3