General Forum

I visited Canton, Texas, with two of my daughters and their husbands, yesterday to shop at what's called "First Monday Trade Day", which encompasses the whole weekend of each month.

In the midst of all the items for sale, there were a few vendors selling cards and memorabilia. One in particular provided me with a couple of decent cards - a '55 Topps Jim Pendleton and '68 Topps Joe Morgan, both in Excellent condition for $4.00 each. So the purchase was favorable for us both as I believe it was equitable.

He also provided me with an interesting exchange that I willfully overlooked in making the purchase. It went like this, and this after a congenial conversation about collecint vintage cards::

Me: How much for this Morgan (the one I eventually purchased)?

He: Let me see (it was priced at $12.00).

Me: 'Cause I see I can get it for about $2.25 on Comc.com plus shipping.

He: Oh, that's how you're going to deal. You card collectors are all the same. Go ahead and buy from them. If you're going to compare prices on the internet then ... (he proceeded to huff and puff and put away the cards he had pulled for me). That's why I prefer dealing with music or comic book collectors.

Me: I'm sorry I upset you. (I already believed I had a good enough price on the '55 Pendleton that I was going to purchase it, but wasn't sure about the Morgan).

He: (still upset) I was going to let you have it for $4.00. 

Me: Okay, I'll take them.

He: (His demeanor changed to surprised) Just this one (holding the Morgan card)?

Me: No, I'll take both. (And after he gave me my change, I extended my hand to civilly close out the transaction.)

He: (Looked at my hand, shook it, and mumbled some apology.)

I'm not sure why he reacted that way, and it seems strange that anyone who sells for a living or as a moonlighter would get in such a tizzy over comparative shopping. Maybe he's lost out on sales because of it, but I'd say use it to your advantage. I know the few that were there at the time heard the exchange, and maybe he lost them. I don't know I didn't stick around to find out, and it didn't matter anyhow.

The only thing I can figure is that he thought you were expecting him to beat the online price.

Still doesn't justify getting combative with a customer.

-Tom

I didn't have quite the same interaction last weekend, but I did have an example of ridiculously high prices, especially when compared to the internet. Sorry for the self-promotion, but I don't feel like typing it all again. I wrote about it on my blog here.

I think a more appropriate response from him could have went something like "Well I can drop it down to $4. Here you have the card in hand and can see what you are getting gaurenteed, with no surprise flaws when the one from on-line arrives, plus I am taking out the risk of something happening to the card in transit." Pretty sure that would have worked better.

I have had a few dealers get like that when I wanted cards for less than what was marked on them over the years . Some dealers don't understand how the market has changed in the last 20 years . Most of the time the dealers I have trouble with are the ones that don't understand how to price according to a cards condition , if a card is mid grade and the price guide lists it at $10 in nearmint and they are trying to sell it for $5 they don't understand that that is full book because midgrade is %50 of price in guide . If they tell me that the card is priced at %50 of book then the card should be $2.50 and not $5 , that is when I get the attitude from the dealer the most . 

I haven't bought a card from a "table vendor" in years. I have had two similiar experiences though. Once I was going to buy a bunch 70's Football commons from a vendor at a mall show. He had a bunch of late 70's early 80's Topps in a $1.00 box. He also had a sign that said " the bigger the purchase, the bigger the deal". So using my phone and the TCDB I went through his box and filled some from my wantlist. About 200 cards in total. I gave a starting offer of $30.00 and I was willing to go $60.

I think he was insulted at $30. I told him I was able to buy from ebay for $.10 a card for commons. He then, not so kindly, pointed out that he wasn't ebay and that most ebay sellers were thieves and liars. I told him all of my 150+ purchases had gone perfectly. We exchanged a few more quibles over the merits of ebay before he grabbed the cards from my hand and said that I knew nothing about card collecting and that he wouldn't sell to me for any amount of money.

The other incident wasn' so dramatic. I made an offer on a card that was less than half of what "book value" was. I don't remember the card, but I remember showing the the most recent completed auctions on ebay. I was offering more than the highest completed auction. He said he couldn't sell for that price without losing money. We talked for a little while and during our conversation he mentioned that online-markets and social websites would eventually kill the card-show ciruit. That was in '02 I think. He was right. There was a time when I lived in Kansas City ('97-'05) when there was a card show within a 2hr drive every weekend; sometimes multiple. Definately not the way it is now.

I don't think that is a completely terrible thing. I got pretty sick of paying the 1/2 "book value" for every card. Like 1/2 "book value" is a deal or something. I think I actually said that to the vendor who grabbed the cards from me. I think that's what set him off. Probably my fault.

The dealer could have been more polite and I don't think buyers should ask card shops/shows to beat an online price.

I think everyone knows that brick and mortars can't compete with online prices and show dealers have to pay a table/booth fee. This is why they're disappearing because competing with the million online sellers vs. the 'in-person you can see it touch it price' is lost in value. I don't mind paying $6-7 for something in-person that I can buy for $5 online, I can inspect it first and take it with me.

If you have a price in mind going into a negotiation based on an online price that's OK, but no need to bring it up.

The market is what it is and I don't think you can ignore the reality of on-line vendors. Ebay, COMC, and any other on-line auction (IMHO) is the true "secondary" card market today; "brick and mortar" can't compete on the secondary market. 

If a vendor can quote an out of touch, biased publication like Beckett, where dealers report the prices; then I think it is more than fair for a buyer to quote auction trends where you can actually see what someone paid for the card. Of course there is value in seeing the card in person and shipping prices must be considered. But to me, and this is just my opinion, Beckett is dead and their price guide is meaningless.

The guy I had the disagreement with was angry. Maybe he saw the end of his card vending days. He took his anger out on me that day. 

I go to a couple small shows during the year and I notice prices most always seem to be at book or higher for single cards.

I've had conversations with some dealers at these shows and their reason for the cards marked higher is that they know almost every person is going to try and knock the price down so they start higher and pretty much end up getting what they are willing to let the item go for.  I also learned the best time to get a lot of good deals is just a couple hours before a show ends.  Many dealers are wanting cash and time is running out.

Sportscommish, don't take it too hard; I think this seller was reacting because of how often he hears those exact lines from others trying to deal him down to ridiculously low prices.

I agree with Bounty's comments.  As a buyer, it is good to shop around but to go into negotiations quoting prices from online sellers is i my mind, rude.  If you can get better prices from online sites, then go buy it there.  I know sellers don't like to hear "where you can get it cheaper".  Do you go in a clothing store and tell the store manager the same thing?

I go into shows and flea markets knowing what I am willing to pay or looking it up in the guide I use (no, not Becketts).  If a table is priced at or over the guide prices, I simply walk away. Usually there is one or two sellers who have reasonable prices and they usually get my money that I am willing to spend. I don't try to haggle with someone who has book prices as they probably won't come down to the price I am willing to pay. And I don't insult himby tellinghimthat hisprices are too high.  That is his choice; if he manages to sell stuff for those prices, who am I to tell him that he is nuts.

And yes, I rather buy a card that I can hold before buying it than a card that I can only look at a scan of.  At least I know the card I am holding is the card I am buying.