When in the pemission access area in #5 YOU CAN ADD A CHECKLIST

but can only ...

• Insert an entry into an existing checklist until you get to Permission #8 Lotsa work for L8s. Let some Crowd Source members help out.

So I'm wondering why, members with #5 can be trusted to imput a full checklist, but can't be trusted to add a single entry to a checklist until #8?

Not to rock the boat, but why couldn't we add a CL, full or partial [w/ TBA label]. And allow members to add single entries in #5 or # 6 permissions. Lotsa CL confusion would be avoided, an overworked L8 crew would have 1 less thing to burden them with. At least in this way a CL is present and as #5, #6 members run across it and they have missing cards, they can add. Also less CL traffic on the forum. Just another thought.

**Note: With my massive collection, I have  many missing sets needing a card or 2. I'm sure I have missing cards for partial sets not listed. It could be a way of adding so much more to this already wonderful site.

Anyone requesting a card to be added, there's research needed to confirm the card actually belongs to that set/checklist, it isn't posted somewhere else already and the user missed it, the new card gets inserted into the proper order in the checklist, etc. There have been many IRs where someone requests something to be added and it was a different set, different year, already posted in a different insert set, something that isn't allowed to be included in the database, and so on. If we give permissions to let anyone add cards whenever they want, it's actually going to cause more work for the L8s and Admin.

Why L5s are allowed to upload checklists, that was established before I joined so I can't answer that one, but at least something new can be blown away easily if it isn't done right. I think it also helps Admin determine if a user is trustworthy enough to do their own image processing a few steps up, and anyone that consistently enters wrong or incomplete checklists won't be given the extra permissions needed to advance.

Ed, yes I get your drift. Not everybody would get the entry in the right place. Couldn't we add an additional access to enter CLs and cards? With more responsibility.? Image Processing is a roadblock to accessibility. Not everybody has top10 scanner to use, can't use photos, so in reality we are somewhat prejudiced to many users. Maybe we need to reorder or add new permissions. Image Processing should be near the end of the access list but mandatory to be an L8.

However, I think CLs that are nearly complete be allowed, as I said, I'm sure I could finish off alot of sets and visa versa to others for my "almost" sets. I know it's done on here because I've encountered sets with a card placemarker like "TBAd". How about this idea? And why would placemarkers be such a bad thing? CLs could be highlighted to show they are incomplete. Make it legal, and not sneaky. Just a thought.

TBA/TBD (I forget which one we decided on) are allowed, but only after exhaustive research and discussion in the forums. I just completed a set with numerous TBDs. 

The problem is the "I want it now" attitude that many members take. Much of that is well intentioned. Members take action to meet the needs of other members. Many L8's are guilty of that. I've seen numerous IRs that had action taken on them just because a member said there was a problem. A little patience and research has proven many "corrections" wrong. (I've been guilty of that myself once or twice). My point is that patience and communication are key to doing things right. It doesn't matter if your level 1 and been here for a day or a Level 8 whose been around around since the beginning. Most mistakes can be avoided if a little patience is exercised and a little research is done.

As far as images being a point barrier, you are flat-out, 100% incorrect. There are many other ways to gain points. I've pointed out several ways to you in the past. Add links to players, teams, or sets. Its one point per link. I've probably acquired 10k points just from adding links. A couple years ago I worked on a project where I validated the player overview of everybody who had a birthday on a given day. I spent about 20 minutes every day going over the birthday list making sure that the player's information was correct. Then I added a link to their bio on Wikipedia and a link to their stats page. That was 2 points per person. With about 50 people having a birthday on any given day, that's 100 points or so. It helps the site and helps members who want points. Not having a scanner should not be a barrier to anyone.

Bob, someday I hope you make level 8. I would get a mighty chuckle seeing you approve IRs. Although I must admit, the thought of you with free rein over the database also scares the crap out me.

I have to ensure accuracy is stated in forum threads like this.

First, Chad, actyually, Bob is correct regarding self-approval of images being a roadblock to L7/L8 access. This is fairly new, compared to when many of us moved up the permission ranks.

Bob - as Chad stated, TBAs (TBA is the preferred acronym by Admin) are allowed when a lot of research has been done (and can be proven - shown in the forums), but we're still careful about these. A brand new set should not be added with any TBDs. That's just lazy (and/or selfish). Additionally, many more mainstream sets from the past 50 or so years have been very well-documented in many places online (and possibly offline) where we should be able to piece together the checklists if the entire thing cannot be found in one, single source. As an example of a set where we allowed TBA to entered for several cards was the Ohio baseball Hall of  Fame card set. I started a forum thread with the beginnings of a checklist (compiled from 3 different sources I had used for research), then after each person added to it, I edited the initial post to reflect those additions. After the post was up for 2-3 months (yes, months), I finally used the info we gathered and entered the checklist with some TBAs. But that was after 2-3 months of several people looking into the set and literally exhausting all sources.

Also, further going on the topic of incomplete checklists, since you are unable to insert cards in checklists, without getting in the details of how to insert a card, when several cards need to be inserted into a set, the process is long, tedious, and very time-consuming. (This is also why when we were looking into the addition of mass VAR checklists, I headed a team of researchers so that the potential for additions was minimized.)

As Chad stated, too many times these incomplete checklists are caused by members who are not doing their due diligence and being either selfish and/or lazy. (Just like those who upload the Panini checklists without verifying the numbering of the cards in that set.)

So, if you have an incomplete checklist, let's get the set created without the checklist, start a forum post with what you do have, and allow the other members to help you complete that set. Because many members do not log in daily, we need to wait at least 2 weeks after the initial posting before we can consider adding it in an incomplete state. (Of course, if you get all of the missing info, you can add it as soon as you have it all.)

Sorry Bob, I stand corrected (and I've been a L8 for many years.....I'm still wrong way more than I care to admit). I thought you were speaking only of gaining points, not the actual climb through the levels. 

vrooomed wrote:

I have to ensure accuracy is stated in forum threads like this.

First, Chad, actyually, Bob is correct regarding self-approval of images being a roadblock to L7/L8 access. This is fairly new, compared to when many of us moved up the permission ranks.

I agree with the permission the way they are set.  I was thinking maybe an exception for the person who submitted the list can be the only person other than those with proper permissions to make additions or adjustments.  But then that would result in people making incomplete checklist.  There really is an argument for both sides for this  subject.  The way it's currently set up keep things neat and uniform and hopefully done correctly the first time.  There were times when I wanted to add things to a checklist.  But now after I have spent some more time on the site, I have realized some of things I wanted to do before would have been incorrect.  

It has taken 2 days for me to digest the replies from Dan and Chad. A lot of what was said speaks truth. However, most members including the L8s don’t really know the “real” ~bob~. Unfortunately, I’ve been labeled a troublemaker, and that’s just not true. I admit I’ve created some havoc in the forum. I ask questions, make comments and suggest changes….that shouldn’t label me, but it does. My recent thoughts have been misinterpreted, to suggest I don’t spend time researching is wrong, I don’t demand I suggest. I’m not lazy! Contrary to some comments, I’ve spent months working on CMC CLs, and numerous POG CLs, I ask for guidance when needed. The innuendo that I’m lazy is just a slap in the face. I’ve spent 2+ years unraveling the “mess” made of FLEER STICKER Sets. If anybody thinks I’m a point farmer or wishes to be one, just look at my profile….never getting to 10, 000 or 5,000 for that matter. Image Processing is a definite roadblock, confirmed by Dan. so Chad, "Bob, someday I hope you make level 8. I would get a mighty chuckle seeing you approve IRs. Although I must admit, the thought of you with free rein over the database also scares the crap out me." 

Now that’s funny….I honestly believe I’ve been sidetracked from reaching L8 status. But the Good News, I don’t want L8 status… too much extra work involved. Unfortunately, what I could offer will be lost.

Still … Wow, never ever been called lazy, maybe a bit selfish sometimes, lol. I have no problem following the preferred methods, unfortunately I generally fail to get help from members, leaving me on the "island of incomplete CLs". Sooo… in part the reason for my recent post. But as in many other stumbling blocks, I have found ways to jig and jag my way to unconventional ways of circumventing the site. Really, All’s Good.

Wonder what CAD had to say? 

..looks around for where Bob was called lazy.....still looking.....