2005 Fleer Tradition Baseball Forum

Do we have full checklists for them?

So if backdoored product is fully checklisted, then it is allowed to be listed here? Even for this particular set the note on the set is " some cards have reached the aftermarket." and the note on the unreleased checklist is " Checklist consists of cards known to exist. Please report any missing cards using the inaccuracies reporting link. Please include card number, name, and team in the request. " and looking into that checklist, it is a full checklist.

Even when it comes to show-stamped promo sets from Pacific or ITG, there is no confirmed checklist, it is just presumed that the entire set is stamped. That same presumption would go for the Pacific un-numbered stuff. For example, it is presumed that the entire 2002-03 Pacific Nights SE parallel was available without a serial number. I'm using the Pacific Nights example because the only cards I've seen of it are the ones I own and I have 9 of them (I have them entered in collection but added as if they were the /10 that are on the checklist, since obviously the actual ones I have are not listed on the site.)

The show-stamped stuff depends on how it was produced and distributed. If it's one of those deals where you can walk up to a booth and have any card stamped as "1 of 1", those don't get listed. If a partial or whole set all received the same stamp and they were distributed, like the Toronto Expo show ones, those can be listed.

I'm sure part of the argument is why these are checklisted here, but sets like 98 Select are disallowed. Both were backdoored after bankruptcies, but are treated differently here.

98 Select wasn't allowed before and now it is. That decision comes from up top.

I see that now. Thank you.

Another ball drop on listing cards? That's not odd. I think all the so-called "backdoor" cards should be listed. After all, they were made by a company we all consider official. But because of bankruptcy and a court date, they were not released by them at the time the company set. But were sold because of a bankruptcy and have been resold and made their way into the public hands. Pretty much the same way all cards make their way to the public, but without a court judge getting in the way.

They all should be listed with a note describing them as "backdoor" it should be a term used here to all cards sold after bankruptcy, because the meaning of backdoor is. Sold after hours.

Remember when you drop the ball so badly that no one can find it. The game is over and people move on to another place to play. 

Well Admin gets to make the rules for what is and isn't listed. If they were to allow it, a release type could be specified. On the site that I do database work on, we have a type selection the is typically either Official or Unofficial, but for products that are "official" but not officially released (such as would be relevant to backdoored items) that type of item is "Unreleased but official"

But yes, typically backdoor means a product that makes its way onto the secondary market while the company still exists. Things that come out in an auction when a company sells its assets due to bankruptcy isn't the same as backdooring. The company itself (or the new owners/debt holders/whatever) are officially selling the products just not in the retail market. It is actually different situation than when Topps sold products directly onto the secondary market. One may even consider that Ebay is not on the same level as an auction house or service, rather Ebay (or even Amazon) exists somewhere between 1st and 2nd markets.

Any sets that were "aftermarket" or "backdoored" are marked with "Test Issue" and listed under that category. The second Fleer series being discussed here was added under "Promo" just so it stayed with the first series that was released; otherwise it would've been under Test Issue as well.