General Forum

I've noticed on the checklist for 1989 Topps Stickers that there are some Sticker Back Variations listed.  It seems that there are 3-4 different backs for each sticker as i just opened a box last night. If we are to list each Sticker Back Variation for each 1989 Sticker in the checklist then I could see the 1989 Topps Sticker Checklist topping 1,000 cards.

Should each checklist for 1989 Topps Stickers and 1989 Topps StickerBacks just focus on their respective side of the card only or should I add more StickerBack Variations to the 1989 Sticker Checklist?? Any input would be apprictiated. 

I am currently up to 1985. I am working my way through these sets, and if you look at my User List here, you'll see what my plans are.

I have been in dialogue with Admin regarding these sets (namely, 88, 89, and 90) and trying to figure out the best way to handle these. Yes, the checklist may max out at over 1,000 combos, but the "set" will be defined as the absolute minimum number of stickers needed to complete the stickers and the backs together. We know there are people who only care if they have one of each sticker and one of each back, but we know there are many variation collectors who do care about having their player on the sticker side with all the different backs possible. We are trying to find the ideal way to satisfy both types of collector.

I was working on the 1985s earlier today, and hope to get through more tonight. It's very tedious adding the second number, name, and team to each one that needs it, then submitting an error report for each one that will need to be deleted. Although, I keep track using a spreadsheet, and have some sode in place to generate the message needed!

Thanks for your patience as we work our way through these sets.

What about the collectors who separated the stickers from the cards (backs)?  How will they catalogue their collection?

The Topps Stickers sets with the "Super Star" card backs have been debated on the database for the last few years.Multiple forum posts have been made on them.

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/S/ID/8708/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=1112&C=4

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/S/ID/8703/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=8094&C=1 (I posted this one about the same variation listed twice)

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/I/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=9614

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/I/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=7436

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/G/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=3378

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/G/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=6965

https://www.tradingcarddb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/S/ID/48418/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=6513#32455 (Another one I created. I currently have two sticker copies that don't match the back image listed on it. I'm not looking to add the variations anytime soon.)

There are a group of members who want every "Super Star" card back variation listed on the database, while another group would want only one sticker listed.

Personally I don't like how we have the different variations listed. My reasoning is they are two different designed sets, they should be treated like that. I recently bought a box of 1988 Topps Stickers Football and pulled many variations. I created a couple user lists to show which variations I have. It would be nice if we could just clean up the listings to have only one sticker listed for the base set, and one "Super Star" back card in the related set. We don't need four listings of 1 Mark McGwire / 163 Willie Wilson from 1988 because of the different backs that are already listed on the database.

I think there will be issue with trying to list every variation of stickers to sticker backs. Main reasoning is there is an unknown amount of variations per sticker back to stickers. I can see this just by going through Tony Gwynn doubles. With over 200 sticker backs of Tony Gwynn I counted 37 different sticker variations just for 1988 alone. When it comes to the Gwynn stickers I found 12 variations out of 150 for sticker backs. 1989 and 1990 seems to have a lot of variations as well (I didn't count them all). Then there are the O-Pee-Chee sticker sets that seems to have a ton of variations as well.

I skimmed through these threads as I am still rather familiar with most of them (as I have commented on most). I also see that I have flip-flopped on my opinion on how to handle these. I was literally 3 seconds from sending a note to Admin to request one of the sets with all the variants be torched and reduced to 2 sets, minimum number of each - all I had to do was "sign" the note and click send. Then it hit me.

I have some of these stickers. If I want to buy/sell/trade (B/S/T) any these, I cannot B/S/T just the sticker side of things. I have to include the whole thing. (Think of it as those recent Topps sets where the difference in the SP was the use of Sabremetric stats - you're not B/S/T-ing the card based on just the front, front and back are a unit.) Same with these. Except - the backs can be detached and B/S/T-ed as a unit without the stickers. (Just like a set issued in panels, we have individual card listings as well.) So, therefore, I am also in favor of having an insert set of the "Backs" with no actual back scans.

So we should list the 4 different 1 / 161 - McGwire / Davis - A's / Reds with Molitor back, with Mattingly back, with etc... Admin and I have been kicking ideas around to figure out the best way to accomodate that (and yes, Admin is in agreement that we should be listing the back variants). It really is simply a matter of figuring out the best method of handling the variations.

The rest of this will discuss pros and cons of the different methods. If you've read this far, you're probably interested in the topic, so continue. If you're not into the inner workings of the DB, carry on. :)

The way the database currently works with variants is there are a/b/c/etc. versions. But that requires the card number to be the same. If we include the "Sticker Back" card number in with the sticker number(s), because that is where the difference is, we wind up with a checklist of ALL unique numbers. That's not what we're trying to do. If we put the "Sticker Back" info in the Note2 field (like normal VAR info), any players that are on the "Sticker Back" are no longer searchable by the database, so if you're a Sandberg collector, you won't see any of the Sandberg backs. This is the conundrum we are in. We may have to go with a blending of this, where the listings look like this:

Number/[Number] (variant letter) - Front Name/[Front Name]/Back Name - Front Team/[Front Team]/Back Team - Note - Note2
1 / 161 (a) - McGwire / Davis / Sandberg - A's / Reds / Cubs - VAR - VAR: #14 Ryne Sandberg back
1 / 161 (b) - McGwire / Davis / Clark - A's / Reds / Giants - VAR - VAR: #18 Will Clark back
1 / 161 (c) - McGwire / Davis / Mattingly - A's / Reds / Yankees - VAR - VAR: #23 Don Mattingly back

(About the notation - the square brackets [ ] indicate that this may not alawys be present - some have only 1 sticker on the front, not 2. Obviously, all first names will be included, I didn't use them for brevity.)

This way, we can still label each "1 / 161" with a letter (a/b/c) which allows us to figure out the actual count for "set" totals, we include the back player in the Name field, include their team in the Team field, and include the "Sticker Back" number in the Note2 field.

Thoughts?

We wouldn't catalog based on the backs, but on the fronts, which generally have 3 or 4 versions only. But since there are a couple hundred stickers and only 66 (or so) backs, so even if there was only one version of each, the backs would be used multiple times.

my opinion on these would be to accomodate both sides

I would like to see a checklist of just the single stickers with the list of backs as an insert set

then a separate set listing called variations or such (with notes in the set descriptions of each distinct checklist)

the variations checklist could be living, or constantly updated as folks discover new combinations.

this way those that want to chase either one would be able to.

I have noticed in trading some of these that I have to manually delete the other sticker and sticker back when someone is trading for one that has multiple players...which in itself is fine with my

my .02

either way, thank you to all that have spent time on these checklists. 

mark

This is a real conundrum as each of us collect and sort differently.

Number/[Number] (variant letter) - Front Name/[Front Name]/Back Name - Front Team/[Front Team]/Back Team - Note - Note2

1 / 161 (a) - McGwire / Davis / Sandberg - A's / Reds / Cubs - VAR - VAR: #14 Ryne Sandberg back
1 / 161 (b) - McGwire / Davis / Clark - A's / Reds / Giants - VAR - VAR: #18 Will Clark back
1 / 161 (c) - McGwire / Davis / Mattingly - A's / Reds / Yankees - VAR - VAR: #23 Don Mattingly back

That appears to be a workable solution.   My only though is  what if some one finds a #15  (who ever)  does it become Var (d)??

budler:

In my world, OCD would get the best of me, and I would prefer that back #15 would be "b" in this case, and b and c would slide down to c and d - to keep the "pattern" going.

Mark:

The only thing with your method, which I'm liking quite a bit, is which back is the one used for the "base" set that isn't considered the "variation" for the Variations set? And how would someone be able to find their sticker/back card if they had, say 10 of them? Maybe 3 are in the base set and 7 in the variations? Even though to them, all 10 are different stickers?

Adding "cards" to the sticker backs was one of the worst ideas in the hobby!