Fred McGriff Forum

McGriff was a very, very good baseball player.

Partial list of eligible-but-not-in-HOF first basemen any one of you would rather have on your team than Fred McGriff:

Todd Helton
Keith Hernandez
John Olerud
Carlos Delgado
Don Mattingly

Schilling says he wants to be judged by his peers who played the game. The review committee had 7 former players (the 6 HOF'ers and Ken Williams ex player now GM).

He got told to go pound sand by them, getting 3 or less votes.

With Bonds et al, it isnt the roids, it's the constant lying and refusal to acknowledge the clearly established facts  

Rose, Bonds, Clemens & Schilling are all wildy different individuals but I get the feeling that if any of them had any humility or were just a tiny bit gracious they'd be in the HOF. In the end, no one really wants to reward assholes.

I can't help but notice that 3 of your players happened to play with the Mets .  McGriff is a worthy person. Rose is worthy. Bonds and Clemens ae worthy. They will get in eventually. A lot of people have been snubbed but these committees seem to just add one in every 3 years.

Regarding 'bars', I think there needs to be a naturally voted in bar and a veteran's committee bar so as to differentiate the likelihood of someone getting in via a particular method. McGriff clearing the Baines bar seems feasible, even if Baines himself was and is questionable. What's the bar for the usual HOF vote for hitters? Jim Rice, because he got in so late? Is McGriff the same or better as Rice as a candidate even if they played mostly in different eras?

He's a bit before my time, but Evans doesnt scream HOF to me. A really good player yes, but just because a mistake was made it admitting Baines doesn't validate his candidacy.

For comparison he has fewer HR, RBI and 2 fewer rings than Joe Carter a player who isnt remotely in the Hall discussion. And that's in the best part of 500 more games. Higher BA and better defensive player true.

I'm not advocating for Carter in the Hall, I just wanted to point out the similar numbers to another. Carter's advanced stats profile is stupid though. Says he's the 117th best RF of all time behind guys like Brian Jordan,  Shin-Soo Chu, Nick Markakis, Sixto Lezcano and Terry Puhl. I mean seriously Terry Puhl?

Counting stats may look similar (outside of Carter's 30/30 seasons), but there is a large difference their profiles. Overall, Dewey was a much more effective hitter (barely .300 OBP for Carter vs .370 for Dewey) and higher OPS+. Cater was barely league average over his career. And Dewey has more blank ink as Bill James likes to put it. As for fielding Carter was hardly known for his glove whereas no one ran on Dewey. If Ozzie can make it on his glove... There's a reason all those players profile higher than Carter. Carter's WS moment was better than Dewey's...

Yes, Dewey can be a complicated case and there's a reason the committee's haven't put him in. It may be easy to say, "well Baines is in so Dewey should be in also" but that can apply to so many other players. I am an advocate for a player to make it in on their own credentials. Modern reevaluation of players can be tricky especially when you look at players that are in the Hall based on their peer relationships rather than their paying careers.

I don't thibk Carter is a HOF member. But in the end, the objective of the game hasn't changed in 150 years. You win when you get more runs than the other team. Some players contribute to that by getting on base, others by stopping the other team scoring (pitchers, defense), others need to bring the baserunners in. Carter did the latter as well as anyone in his era.

When Carter played,  the job description of a cleanup hitter was 1 line - "drive in runs". That's what he was paid to do.

I'm just not 100 percent sold on some of these modern metrics and statistical breakdowns. Something that determines a guy like Lezcano who had 5 seasons where he played 120 games and was basically done at 30 was a better player and had a more valuable career than a guy in the top half percent all time in RBI (he has more than Mark McGwire for example) and HR isn't properly calibrated in my mind.

One collectors take on...

The Best Rookie Cards And Early Career Cards Of New Hall Of Famer Fred McGriff