LeBron James Forum

I really have no "guy" in basketball.   Yes!!  Players, coaches and fans all yell at refs in hopes the next call will go in favor of them.   No matter what sport.    Some go overboard at times in all sports and those are the one that hit the sports news on TV.  just IMO

Yes!!   Bird was one of the biggest trash talkers of all time.  IMO  But that is another posting.  

I recommend everyone read this article by Kareem Abdul-Jabbaar:

https://kareem.substack.com/p/what-i-think-about-lebron-breaking

Very good article read. Thank you for sharing it.

Not really a basketball fan.  I didn't like the way he left the Cavs and then seemed surprised at the backlash.  Although I'm not sure he was wrong for leaving.  The Cavs didn't seem willing and/or able to put a championship caliber team around him at the time.  He redeemed himself in my eyes when he came back and stayed until the Cavs had won at least one Championship.  I think Cavs fans always knew he would leave at some point but figured with Cleveland's championship drought he'd at least wait to leave until he was able to break it.  It didn't feel like there was anywhere close to as much animosity when he left the 2nd time.  

I don't hold the whole super team thing against him -- you almost have to do that in the modern NBA.  For most of Bill Russell's career there were 8-10 teams in the NBA and for most of that time the Eastern Conference only had 4 teams.  Kinda hard to hold his 11 rings over later players that had to play in a league with 2-3 times as many teams.  They had a super team every year -- just checking one year - the 1963 Celtics had 9 Hall of Famers on their team!  

As for his outspokenness, I know for a good portion of his career he was criticized for not speaking up.  While I may not agree with much of what he says, he has the right to say it.  It would probably help him if he put a little more thought into what he tries to speak up about -- he seems to backpedal or silently back away from a lot of what he says. He seems to get upset that people are upset with him -- you need to expect a little backlash if you want to put your thoughts out there from the platform he has.

As for the record, good for him.  But just think of how many more points Kareem would have had if he didn't spend 4 years at UCLA.  There's no doubt he could have played in the NBA straight out of high school.

My thoughts:

Well I don't really follow the sport of Basketball but I do know that the game has certainly changed. Back when Kareem Abdul- Jabbaar broke the record there was no such thing as a three pointer, so I guess in my eyes he'll always be the real all time leader (just like Hank Aaron in baseball. Even though Bonds broke the HR record, he did it on steroids. Obviously Lebron doesn't use PED's but he certainly has it way easier than Abdul-Jabbaar.)

Side Note: Also interesting that he dropped an F bomb on live television. Like I said, I don't follow basketball so I don't know if he typically has a big mouth, but you have to at least consider there are children watching. 

Just my take. 

As a former sports journalist I have a lot of thoughts on a topic like this and probably have a different perspective on athletes than most.

Unfortunately, I find it hard to articulate my exact thoughts/feelings without offending people as I find the general level of loathing or adoration sports fans have for athletes they will never meet, let alone know in any way worthy of forming such feelings, downright bemusing.

Athletes are just people. Like all people there are smart athletes and not so smart athletes, there are athletes who express their thoughts frequently and some who do not. Some of the former should be more like the later and vice versa.

We often seem to forget that many of these athletes are extremely young human beings who live in a fish bowl of almost 24/7 attention. Young people tend to talk more than they should and often on topics they are not as informed as they think they are. Combine that with the constant media attention and ability to create out of context soundbites and I often wonder why they talk at all.

I look at what I was like in my late teens/early 20s and shudder at the thought of having cameras and microphones constantly around.

Has LeBron said some dumb things on his time? I am sure he has but so have I (and everyone else). Has he said and acted in ways that are self-promoting and in his own interests? Sure. But so have I (and everyone else).

Has he done many good things with his platform? Sure. Many more than I have (and most others).

All-in-all he has kept his nose pretty clean given he has been in a media bubble since he was about 16.

So, to cycle back to the original question. Do I respect LeBron James? No. Do I not respect him? No. I don't know him and never will.

I save my respect for people I know and trust.

I can marvel at an athletes physical (and at times mental) abilities but I don't get too wrapped up in the rest of their package.

Like all people some do seem like remarkable people with great values and a social conscience while others appear to be abhorrent individuals and I try to give those people no thoughts at all.

On a less serious note; those who say LeBron has it "easy". Check out the pace of play stats throughout league history.

I only have stats starting from 1973-74 — Kareem's fifth season — where they started at 97.7 possessions per game/48mins and steadily climbed to a peak of 108.3 in 1986-87. Twelve of the final 16 season's of Kareem's career had a pace of over 100 possessions per game.

LeBron's rookie year (2003-04) had a pace of 90.1 and it wasn't until his 16th season that pace reached 100 possessions. After seasons of 100.0 and 100.3 pace has dropped below 100 again the last three seasons.

So, yes current players have the three point shot and a variety of rule changes over the years but they also have 8 to 20% less possessions per game than they did through the 80s especially.

I feel it is important to acknowledge the differences in style and rules across eras, but using one stat or rule as an automatic disqualifier on a players accomplishments seems rather short sighted.

LeBron, Kareem and many others all had (or still have) remarkable careers and denigrating their achievements based on the rules of the era they played in seems pointless.

when Kareem Abdul- Jabbaar broke the record there was no such thing as a three pointer, so I guess in my eyes he'll always be the real all time leader.

I dont really see the lack of a 3 point shot during Kareem's era as a factor at all. As I write this James has 2237 3 pointers in his career. That's not 2237 bonus points.

If the 3 point line didnt exist, he wouldn't have been chucking up 25 foot jumpers. He'd have been taking higher percentage in closer shots, driving the rim and getting more foul shots. His shooting percentage would have been higher. And he'd have played in offences designed to maximize those higher percentage shots for him.

If anything the 3 point line may have cost him points by nature of the style of offense pushing towards something he is average at in 3 point shooting and away from something he is dominant at.

DodgyDave,

"Unfortunately, I find it hard to articulate my exact thoughts/feelings without offending people as I find the general level of loathing or adoration sports fans have for athletes they will never meet, let alone know in any way worthy of forming such feelings, downright bemusing."

After reading this passage in your response, I bet you must have a field day watching those Hollywood magazine shows (not to mention what passes as cable 'news' these days).

I must admit I am not entirely sure what those shows are — I'm not a big TV person.

Here in New Zealand our news is slightly less extreme than the US versions I have seen too.

There is a viral video today about a young fan freaking out when LeBron sits next to her in the stands at a Lakers game.

I guess I would freak out also if I spent that much money on a ticket and LeBron was sitting in street clothes in the stands.