General Forum

Honestly, I don't know enough about the Joe Jackson details to have a valid opinion. I just know the "character" clause is problematic and that there's some controversy surrounding his role in that series.

But, more relevant to now....Wagner, but not Hoffman? There are decent arguments for every vote "cast" here, but I'm always trying to find the reasoning behind some of them, and that caught my attention.

v3

I would put 10 names down.  

No, their permanent suspensions have no connection to each other.  A current or future commissioner could reinstate one without the other.  And even then, they would still have to get elected by the veterans committee.  Keep in mind, Jackson was eligible for consideration for the Hall until 1991, and never received more than 1% of the vote.

Wagner was just better than Hoffman.  Every meaningful pitching stat, with the exception of Saves, which is a statistic of opportunity, favors Wagner.  ERA, WHIP, Strikeouts, ERA+, etc.  Wagner was simply dominiant during his peak.  Hoffman was "merely" very good.  Add in the fact that Wagner did it from the left side, which is even more rare, and it becomes a no-brainer.

I would vote for Hoffman, but in my opinion Wagner should go in first.  I also know that in reality the voters will only look at saves and put Hoffman in first and Wagner will probably not get close.

I get what Griffey is saying.  You really felt like your team was done when Wagner took the mound in the 9th to face your hitters.  Some things aren't necessarily defined by numbers.

All fair points, although "no brainer" might be overstating it a bit. I think you got the same feeling of "game over" when Hoffman came in, and he wasn't exactly playing for world beaters. And it's clearly more than numbers, or Sutter and Gossage and maybe all the relievers wouldn't be in. I shall reassess my views on Wagner....

v3

I guess I saw more of Wagner (same division as Cardinals) than I did of Hoffman.  In no way did I mean to slight Hoffman.  He just usually didn't face the Cardinals more than once or twice a season until he went to Milwaukee.  And closers don't get the exposure of position players or starters, because you never know if they're going to play until the 9th inning. So pitching the 9th inning of games for a west coast team means he usually didn't play until around 1 AM or later eastern time, midnight or later where i live.  Nobody in the east ever said, "Let's stay up late to watch the Padres because Hoffman might face 3 batters, three hours from now.  Or he may not play at all."  But everyone knows he was outstanding.

I vote for Vada Pinson!!

Wait a minute. He's not on the list. He is a more worthy HOFer than some of the names on the list. Oh well. Better luck next time.

Heres my list, I didnt follow directions and they are in no particular order. Its hard to do on a cell phone..... I feel they can take roids and shove it..... These guys brought baseball back when it was down. These guys provided excitement to my childhood memories. Theres no pills or creams, or needles that can help anyone line up a 100 MPH fastball and hot a round ball with a round bat over 400 ft.

Rose, yeah he betted on baseball, as a manager. He was the greatest hitter of his time, i dont believe anyone can argue that. Put him in as a player and never mention his managing, best of both worlds right?

Joe Jackson, its never been proven, its time to let it go and put him in.

1. Barry Bonds
2. Sammy Sosa
3. Roger Clemens
4. Chipper Jones
5. Edgar Martinez
6. Curt Schilling
7. Jim Thome
8. Fred McGriff
9. Billy Wagner
10. Trevor Hoffman

Veterns comittee (some are not eligible yet, but its my list lol)

1. Pete Rose
2. Joe Jackson
3. Alan Trammell
4. Lou Whitakar
5. Bobby Cox
6. Mark McGwire
7. Rafael Palmeiro
8. Minni Mininso
9. Gil Hodges
10. Roger Maris
11. Don Mattingly
12. Bud Selig
13. Thurman Munson
14. Dale Murphy
15. Al Oliver

Cox and Selig are already in!