General Forum

It's just Wikipedia but its enough to at least make me think twice:

Jackson spent most of the last 30 years of his life proclaiming his innocence, and evidence has surfaced that casts significant doubt on his involvement in the fix. Jackson reportedly refused the $5,000 bribe on two separate occasions — despite the fact that it would effectively double his salary — only to have teammate Lefty Williams toss the cash on the floor of his hotel room. Jackson then reportedly tried to tell White Sox owner Charles Comiskey about the fix, but Comiskey refused to meet with him.[23] Unable to afford legal counsel, Jackson was represented by team attorney Alfred Austrian—a clear conflict of interest. Before Jackson's grand jury testimony, Austrian allegedly elicited Jackson's admission of his supposed role in the fix by plying him with whiskey.[14] Austrian was also able to persuade the nearly illiterate Jackson to sign a waiver of immunity from prosecution.[23] Years later, the other seven players implicated in the scandal confirmed that Jackson was never at any of the meetings. Williams said that they only mentioned Jackson's name to give their plot more credibility. Jackson's performance during the series itself lends further credence to his assertions.[14] A 1993 article in The American Statistician reported the results of a statistical analysis of Jackson's contribution during the 1919 World Series, and concluded that there was "substantial support to Jackson's subsequent claims of innocence".[24]

An article in the September 2009 issue of Chicago Lawyer magazine argued that Eliot Asinof's 1963 book Eight Men Out, purporting to confirm Jackson's guilt, was based on inaccurate information; for example, Jackson never confessed to throwing the Series as Asinof claimed. Further, Asinof omitted key facts from publicly available documents such as the 1920 grand jury records and proceedings of Jackson's successful 1924 lawsuit against Comiskey to recover back pay for the 1920 and 1921 seasons. Asinof's use of fictional characters within a supposedly non-fiction account added further questions about the historical accuracy of the book.[25]

But, again, all baseball commissioners, including the current one, I believe, has said Joe Jackson is out, so that's likely to remain that way for many years to come, if not forever.

v3

I agree on the "Roid Rage Players" not being subjected to a ban for it. I have watched many documentaries where HOF'r's admitted to using cocaine in huddles to amp up - Ed Top Tall Jones - stated that he taped packs of come in the shoulder pads to take in game. Now this might ruffle some too but MANTLE WAS STONE DRUNK EVERY GAME according to flasks and others there right? I'm not stating that disqualifies him but Ya Best Bet it helped him more than hurting him while playing bcz it killed his liver later right? Babe Ruth - Womanizer & Smoked in games & nicotine is a drug too. 

The "Sports Science" today along with the natural supplements simply did not exist in the history of baseball until the last decade so a player taking roids isn't that offensive to me when it comes to the fact that they didn't amp there NATURAL TALENT up bcz talent is just that, talent. Roids never gave a baseball player a huge advantage over another until BASEBALL ITSELF MESSED UP IN 94 STRIKE & if those "Roid Players" didn't hit mile long Homeruns or stun the crowds with the physicality of what they did, Baseball would have been or still be, dead to some. No player that had a lifestyle that took away from their "Role Model" effect should be a first ballot really. U watch games and as a kid you see heroes and not the tobaccoo or alcohol, you see homers, leaping catches, base stealing and 100+ pitches as almost "God Like" until you lose the "Love of The Game." And many players lost that love in their careers by replacing it with MONEY, WOMEN, MARKETING & EGOS, there are hardly any LOYAL PLAYERS left in any sport today like they were a decade ago or older. You didn't take another players income via a huge argument over worth and have them traded to help you. They didn't leave teams to find better pay either, almost all were traded and that was against their wanting to be really. 

- Pete Rose - Deserves a Hall Of Fame of his own & fans should donate to build one if MLB continues to black ball him. If he were to pass away and them admitted it would be a HATE CRIME to me. ALSO - & admitting this here is somewhat self abusing but I BOOKED SPORTS for years, with  $10k bets coming in like the rain thru a leaky roof. The ONLY people in sports that can THROW A GAME or MISS A BASKET ETC, ARE THE REFS!! They make amd break line covering and over/under with a whistle and never are charged with a crime! (EXAMPLE - Tennessee was playing some nobody back IN, I forget the year or team, but the Over/Under was 2 points away from going over. Tennessee has the ball and is up by over a touchdown, then FULMER calls a pass with under a minute to go, then a timeout, he sends the kicker out for a 45+ yard FG that would decide the total or over/under being met or not. He was winning, only had a few seconds left which they could have keeled it and celebrated but he sends the kicker out and he nails it!!!!! What??? Right??)))) Fulmer was asked after the play and game why he sent the kicker out like that and his reply was "I wanted to run a hurry up to test the teams alertness or capability etc, and send the kicker out so to have him execute a pressure kick. (paraphrased) but accurate. That kick cost me $30K!!!!!! There are people playing on every team on the record that have players being paid, refs paid, coaches and others to just make it what Vegas needs it to be. Hard to know all that and not say who and when etc but believe Me, things are never what they seem to be in games. 

Pete Rose should have a fan based Hall of Fame built & he ought to have an Award named after him as well. He was and is the best pure hitter in baseball to me. He spent time with DiMaggio in Vietnam serving in the Army and most likely got some pointers there but He is a Military Vet, Baseball Hero, Record Shattering, Hitting Machine that slipped up and never bet on a game he was involved with as a player or coach right? 

Baseball needs to forgive it & allow him to be alongside those greats that he squashed the records of. Gambling didn't make him make better contact with the ball right? Roids don't either so forgive or let it go.

I rambled but made some sense, sorry for length....

I'll give you that' it'd be great to see him recognized that way. I always wondered how conflicted he was in '04. I mean his team lost the WS, but it was to the team he grew up cheering for and it broke a curse.

In the end, I think the voters should decide who goes to the Hall of Fame. I believe -- I haven't verified this again, but I'm almost certain I'm right -- that the Hall of Fame is not technically affiliated with MLB. It is a separate entity. I also believe that for decades, no one was barred from entering the Hall, not even Joe Jackson. The Hall set the criteria for getting in. The voters voted. Virtually no one voted for Joe Jackson, so he didn't get in. Then, in 1991, the Board of Directors of the Hall decided to implement what has sometimes been called "The Pete Rose Rule," which states that no one who has been permanently banned from baseball can get in the Hall.  It's their Hall; they can do what they want. But why not just leave it to the voters to decide based on the criteria the Hall set? There's a character clause. Voters can decide whether it keeps Rose or Jackson or anyone else out or not. I might disagree with the voters' decision, but I'll live with it. But the voters literally can't cast a vote that counts for Rose because a few people essentially decided that he and Jackson (the only two people to whom this realistically applies) shouldn't be in. And that irks me. 

v3

All of this is correct, V3.  For Rose and Jackson, induction would require a reinstatement from Rob Manfred, followed by a necessary number of votes from the veterans committee (I forget the actual current name of this committee; it has changed), in the year that their respective eras came up for a vote.  I really don't see the veterans committee voting for either until maybe guys Bryce Harper's age are the old men making the decision.  Right now, sports betting is kind of trendy, with stuff like Fan Duel.  Opinions change over time. Somebody might make a movie about Rose in 50 years, portraying him as a victim, and it might get a reaction.  There's an SI writer who wants Darren Sharper on the football HOF ballot, and he's serving 20 years for rape right now.  Many of my wrestler friends want Chris Benoit in the WWE HOF, and he murdered his wife and son.

But even when the standards were very loose (DiMaggio got votes while he was still playing), Jackson had virtually no support, even when the people who saw him play were alive and casting the votes.

It's hard to separate what a player has done ain retirement (well, Benoit was retired just yet) over against the accomplishments of his/her career. I remember vividly RR '04 where Benoit won. My (now ex) wife and I sat at the edge of the couch and were through the moon when Big Show went over. I was deployed in Iraq when I heard he took the belt at Wrestlemania; couldn't wait to watch the replay when I got back. I also remember when I heard the news of the incident. The guy was great, but it took a toll. One thing I always had trouble with was Vince eliminating everything Beniot after the fact; like he never existed. And I say that with a ting of irony as many people wish that Rose would just fade away already. Can't rewrite history and what he and Eddie did in '03/'04 (most of their careers really) was absolutely tore the house down and made Vince A LOT of money.   

I agree as well and you provided research material in your reply. The thing is that the "Writers" do fast ballots and votes to enshrine players into the HOF.

I don't want this statement to be misused or taken as some bragging point or even anything like that bcz I do not "bother" the players or people in this comment I'm about to discuss for anything due to the career of a relative intertwining with them.  

I am a relative of a former radio broadcaster in Pensacola Florida that's called the "Diane Sawyer of Florida" her name is Terrace. She and Don Sutton are really close and she also heled promote athletes from the area to stardom by publicizing their names and careers.

A few are, but certainly not limited to; Don Sutton, Emmitt Smith & Roy Jones Jr., to keep it short bcz she interviewed MLB players & celebrities for nearly 40 yrs until around 5 yrs ago when she became elderly & needed tending to.

My uncle went down to help her sort her autographs & gifts from those she interviewed or interacted with via the Radio Station. ((She had every name anyone can come with autographed on a ball, hat, jersey or the like etc. Elvis Presley signed Sealed Records the Radio Station had the singles of to play on the air.  She was employed by the station her entire career, and being located where she was, she met many spring training athletes from all sports. She also promoted artists as well as even interviewing the likes of Presidents and Hollywood Superstars)) back to the story - - but my uncle went down to help her sort things out for selling/donating the money to the Pensacola Sports Hall of Fame located there. He arrived and was unknowingly attending a HOF benefit dinner with her as a guest.  I'm sitting at home and he texts me pics of people he saw her speaking to or that were to be seated with them at the dinner (my uncle is a newspaper executive in Tennessee, but not a huge sports fan) and asked who they were or if I knew them etc bcz He didn't know them by sight. 

He was seated with Don Sutton, Emmitt Smith, Roy Jones Jr., Julio Jones, Trent Richardson and a few others. I was amazed that he got to even go much less not knowing who they were. Our family is one of collecting, I'm a 4th generation so we have things but not all cards, it's in stamps, coins and other items too. But there I was sitting at home and he got lucky by being there when the dinner was held and knew nothing of the athletes.  Talk about wishing I had gone down too right? There were many others there as well but I'm not going to lost them all, no point really. 

Sutton is a member of the HOF both in Florida and Cooperstown. I have a connection with him thr I her and my uncle but again, I don't like pestering people for things. She had autographs from Mantle, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Rose, Mays, Aaron, Ryan, Schmidt, Brock and on and on and on. She literally put the balls or items in storage containers and into her attic. It was a good mine but I didn't press her to get anything. She still has some and we are attempting to save a few for me to get one day, I hope. I would love to contact Sutton about Rose and get his views too. I think that fans writting the HOF, Writers & Voters to put Pete Rose into the Hall would be a powerful movement. If nothing but a petition passed around via email or regular mail to have him enshrined as a member bcz his "crimes" are not anywhere near those of others already in. 

I have sent word to my relative about this to see what sort of reply it gets bcz she knows them all, has private contact info and could be a doorway to bringing Rose in on FAN PRESSURE like others have been.

I would be happy with a Yankees spring trading team from say 1954 or so, ya know? But I don't sell collected items that have tied to them like those. Some of the things she has are literally hard to even price bcz they have the story that links them to her via the interviews she did on the air and those interviewed signing items as a gift to her. Maybe one day I will have a chance to p9ck a few out.

Should we start a Thread on Pete Rose HOF petitions to send to the voters stating that it's time to release the negative issues of Rose & honor him while he's still with us. He was my hero when playing ball from age 5 - no tee ball then, mound got moved closer is all - to Highschool. I have 35mm photos of him breaking the hit record where I used a Canon Camera with a Auto Speed Adjustment to take pics of the TV when he was pitched to and caught the hit on 1 of them!! That's how much I looked up to him.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

All his stuff is on the network. Honestly, it would anger a LOT of fans if they did blatantly try to capitalize on him.  They're still selling you every televised match he ever had for $9.99 a month, so Benoit is still making Vince money.  But he isn't get getting credit for anything.  As it should be. He's is garbage.  I was a fan of his wife long before I was a fan of his.  I can't even enjoy watching him in the ring, he disgusts me so.

EDIT to add that he was a favorite of mine when he was alive.

Ok I got the committee names... Modern Baseball Committee (16 members, made up of HOFers, execs, and veteran writers) vote on players from the Rose era, twice every five years.  Early Baseball Committee ( same makeup, but not the same actual 16 people) vote on players from Jackson's era, once every ten years.  The general BBWAA membership that votes on the ballot of recently retired players would not vote on Rose or Jackson, if they ever became eligible for consideration.

Any Reds fans here know whether Pete is in the Reds HOF? I've never paid to go in.  I know one of the streets that lead to the stadium is named after him.

Here's a Flipboard Story that literally just alerted me to being put out and it's about Rose - 

Steward: Morgan’s Hall of Fame letter did nothing but belittle Joe

http://flip.it/h67d78