General Forum

And Trammell.

My picks would be:

Chipper Jones

Jim Thome

Vlad

Hoffman

Edger Mertinez

Write in:

Rose & Mattingly

A shout out to Birmose  OH.......IO!!!!!!!!

Trevor Hoffman

Vlad Guerrero 

Edgar Martinez

Mike Mussina

Roger Clemens

Chipper Jones

Jamie Moyer

Jim Thome

Fred McGriff

I am certainly to the point where I need ten spots on my ballot.  I'm not sure this is really the order of priority for me, but it's pretty close:

1. Mike Mussina
2. Edgar Martinez
3. Jim Thome
4. Billy Wagner
5. Gary Sheffield
6. Trevor Hoffman
7. Curt Schilling (if only for his ridiculous postseason dominance)
8. Chipper Jones
9. Vladimir Guerrero
10. Omar Vizquel

With that said, if I were really a BBWA member with a ballot, there would likely be three changes. I'd drop Hoffman, Thome and Schilling because those three are going to either get in or get carried to next year, and I'd add Chris Carpenter and Jamie Moyer to those two blanks.  I think their body of work deserves more consideration, and I worry neither will see year 2 on the ballot.  I hope I'm wrong.  

Oh--the third blank.  If I were really a voter, Charlie Hustle would be there every time.  I'm a Cardinal fan, but my son played age 8 through college (sigh...all done now), and I always gave him the same example for how to play the game--just watch film of Pete Rose.  It's a travesty that he's not enshrined, but it is one he brought on himself.  I hope during my lifetime it's remedied; unfortunately I don't think it will be in his.

Seeing that I played against Carpenter in HS I'd loved to see him get some love, but I don't think it's gonna happen. Started slow, got great in St. Louis and then injuries wrecked him. His stretch of greatness was nowhere near the height that Koufax had. Even Johan Santana's height in his shortened career was more dominant. And I say this as a Carpenter fan 

And while I'm at it. Some hard choices on who to leave off Like Martinez. As much as I'd love to leave Bonds and Clemens off a) unlike Ramirez they never did test positive (neither did Piazza and Bagwell for example and they are in) and b) they were alrady on a HOF track. Yeah, Clemens was sliding a little, but some of that is just Boston wearing you down.

15        Chipper Jones

2          Vladimir Guerrero

16        Jim Thome      

10        Fred McGriff 

6          Mike Mussina 

4          Roger Clemens

5          Barry Bonds   

1          Trevor Hoffman

12        Gary Sheffield

7          Curt Schilling

That's why I love the Cardinals HOF.  It's great for Cardinals who arent quite Cooperstown-calibre, or jersey retirement level either.  And the museum itself is fantastic.

I love that Jamie Moyer is getting a little love. I remember watching his first start ever. I think he went four innings. Got a standing O when he left. But he's not HOF worthy. Nor is Carpenter or Santana, in my opinion, though both would be if they'd been able to play four or five more effective years each. Love Fred McGriff, too, but can't quite see it. He was just never the terror that, say, Vlad, was. Edgar Martinez is on the edge, but he pretty much defined the DH position, so I'd put him in eventually.

v3

I'm really torn on Edgar Martinez.  He was a great hitter for a long time, but he was probably the 3rd or 4th best player on a team that rarely ever made the playoffs.  When I think of Mariners of that era, I think of Griffey, ARod, and Randy Johnson long before I get to Edgar.  I know that playoffs shouldn't matter, but being the 3-4 best player on a team that doesn't dominate makes it hard to me to think HOF worthy.  He also only finished in the top 10 in MVP voting twice in his career, so his contemporaries didn't view him as a domininant player either.

I struggle with the DH bias though, and how much of that was already built in.  I hope he does get in some day, but if I had a vote I wouldn't vote for him.  But he is one I definitely review every year to see if my opinions have changed.

As for Shoeless Joe...it was absolutely proven that he accepted a bribe for throwing the World Series.  He admitted to it in front of a grand jury.  Said he used the money to pay off his farm.  I don't know how much other proof somebody could need!  Read the book (or watch the movie) 8 men out.  The only one of the 8 that fought the suspension was Buck Weaver.  The rest knew they were caught.

1 Hoffman

2 Martinez

3 Walker

4 Jones

5 Thome

------------

6 Kent

7 McGriff

8 Damon

9 Vizquel

10 Rose

Top 5 this year; the next 4 eventually; the last one long over due.