2017 Topps Baseball Forum

My ballot would look like this:

• Ivan Rodriguez
• Vladimir Guerrero
• Gary Sheffield
• Trevor Hoffman
• Lee Smith

Clemens, Bagwell, Bonds, Rodriguez, Hoffman, Sosa, Raines, Kent, Ramirez, Smith. In no particular order.

I would have to start off with Bagwell, Raines, Schilling, McGriff, Walker, Mussina, and a write in for Rose.

My votes would be for these guys in no particular order:

I-Rod, Bagwell, Mussina, Schilling, Ramirez, Lee Smith, Hoffman, Martinez, Walker.

The steriods-era was a big chunk of the career for most of the players on the ballot. But I feel that if McGwire is no longer on the ballot, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa shouldn't be there either. Those 4 were the heart of the Steriods Controversy in the late 90's. I know the consensus is that Clemens used to get back on the field faster after injuries and not for power like Big Mac, Barry and Sammy. I also know there have been claims that Manny, I-Rod, Vlad and Bagwell used them too.

When you look at longevity and dominance at any position: Smith and Hoffman were dominant closers for a long time, Mussina was an ace for a crappy team, Schilling was an ace and was dominant in the PO's, I-Rod/Bagwell/Martinez/Walker player "forever" and continued to put up consistent numbers every year. Manny was a pivotal player in the dugout by getting the Indians and the Red Sox back into the playoffs after long droughts for both teams while producing at the plate and in the field. Yes, he got a bit silly the last few years, but I still think he belongs in the HOF.

If I have to vote for 10 players, Raines makes the cut.

Ivan. Vlad. Lee. Trevor. 

Bonds. Clemens. Sosa. 

Rose write-in. 

On the fence on Raines. 

I always wondered why Sosa gets less love than the other steroid guys. He helped save the game. He was a joy to watch. He hit more homers than the others, except Bonds. Was it the bar corking incident? Just don't get it. 

Anyway, I'm also waiting for some of the veteran's committees (I know. They're not called that anymore) to actually vote in some overlooked players. Maybe next time around. I hate the every three year thing.  

V3

Personally, till Pete Rose is included, the Hall of Fame will always be incomplete and therefore not my favoured institution.  Having said that, I look at these players as deserving as well:

This year:  Raines, Hoffman, Smith, Edgar Martinez, Walker

PED annotated: include McGwire and Palmeiro, then add Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, I-Rod, (there are already others who are in that used PED - why exclude these)

Future years: Bagwell, Mussina, McGriff, Kent, Sheffield, Ramirez, Guerrero, Posada

I agree with all those about the comments on relievers.  I recently listened to a voter who did not vote for Hoffman.  He was the leader in saves before Mariano; he just did not play in the big market.  Unfortunately, the market you play in often times affects what people think of you as a player.  Had he played in any of the big four markets, he would already be in and everyone would have known that he had the all time record in saves for a period of time (all records are meant to be broken eventually).

Here is my list:

1. Jeff Bagwell

2. Tim Raines (it's a shame that he still isn't in)

3. Trevor Hoffman

4. Edgar Martinez

5. Ivan Rodriguez

6. Manny Ramirez

7. Vladimir Guerrero

That's it. I'll pass of the KNOWN steriod users.

Why all the love for Edgar Martinez?

I can think of a player who had more runs scored, more doubles, more triples, more home runs, more hits, more RBI's and ONLY 7 games at DH. He is on the ballot and I don't really think he is a HOF player. He did win an MVP but was not part of a World Series winner. Edgar did place 3rd one year for MVP and also was not a WS winner.

Oh well. I guess if Bum Selig can get elected anybody can. Just my opinion.

carthage...don't mean to single you out, but you do realize that Manny Ramirez failed two different PED tests, right?  He retired after his second failure rather than face the suspension.  At least Bonds and Clemens can say they never failed a test.

carthage44 wrote:

Here is my list:

1. Jeff Bagwell

2. Tim Raines (it's a shame that he still isn't in)

3. Trevor Hoffman

4. Edgar Martinez

5. Ivan Rodriguez

6. Manny Ramirez

7. Vladimir Guerrero

That's it. I'll pass of the KNOWN steriod users.

Which player?

Ignoring the raw numbers (which aren't an automatic qualifier for the HOF anyway) and looking at the effectiveness of Edgar, he had a high average, high on-base percentage, and high slugging percentage.  Pitchers feared him.  He blasted likely HOFer Mariano Rivera in 23 plate appearances with a .579 avg.   

His lack of World Series appearances is also not a negative against him.  Baseball is a team sport.  Mike Trout is a consistent MVP contender despite the fact that the Angels have only 1 post-season appearance during his tenure.  The point is that one player cannot define the success of his team.  

What rankles me is when people say he doesn't deserve to get into the HOF because he was "only" a DH.  I'm sorry, is hitting not an essential aspect of baseball?  If being "only" a DH isn't HOF worthy, then what about relief pitchers?  They "only" pitch one inning per outing.  

dicefoot wrote:

Why all the love for Edgar Martinez?

I can think of a player who had more runs scored, more doubles, more triples, more home runs, more hits, more RBI's and ONLY 7 games at DH. He is on the ballot and I don't really think he is a HOF player. He did win an MVP but was not part of a World Series winner. Edgar did place 3rd one year for MVP and also was not a WS winner.

Oh well. I guess if Bum Selig can get elected anybody can. Just my opinion.